Current Affairs Ukraine

[peteblue]

I thinks it’s more of a result of assessing the risk of escalating tensions with Russia versus the impact that these ageing fighters would have.

What Ukraine needs are manpads, ATGM’s, missiles for their S-300 AD systems, food and ammo.

Indeed, there’s more than one way to skin a cat.…..

 

[Davideeyore]

Do people remember back in 2008 when we had the Russian-Georgia war? I don’t seem to remember much of a public outrage. What is Georgia’s strategic positioning on gas lines, oil production/reserves?

It just bothers me when I think how the west seems to only become bothered by things like this when certain criteria is met.

You're right.

But two wrongs, or 3 or 4 wrongs, don't make a right. It's now we must act.

God spares us if we don't the leaders will be seen as weak and only acting with self interest.

Reminds me of "appeasement" after the first world war.

 

[maccavennie]

Grim reading that LL

 

[Davideeyore]

I agree but do you join in a war that inevitably ends up turning nuclear and threatens the lives of billions of people? Do we have a right to make that decision for all those people?

I wonder if that's what really will happen?

But while we're mass debating people are being killed. Children are being killed. It's a war in Ukraine and we're
saying well I'm okay Jack.

 

[peteblue]

My Mum keeps saying “why doesn’t somebody just shoot him”

Your mum is a wise woman…..

 

[DualityNSNO]

Totally agree. If the West had stood up for Georgia and Russia’s annexation of Crimea things may have turned out differently for Ukraine.

Instead we put a few pathetic sanctions in place, shook our fists and carried on systematically dismantling our own armed forces.

Well, with Georgia it was "don't poke the bear, he'll go away when he has what he wants".

With Ukraine Mk 1 it was the same, he got Crimea, "he'll go away".

Now it's Ukraine Mk 2 and basically everyone's shocked it's happened.

Learn ffs.

 

[peteblue]

Hitler didn't have 6000 nuclear weapons.

Neither did we…..

 

[davmaher]

A proud and historic people. I want to visit Bulgaria and Romania some day when this madness is over. I have been to Hungary, Croatia and Bosnia and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Lovely, friendly people, and great places to visit.

If you do get to Bulagaria try to visit Plovdiv - a really lovely place full of history.

 

[Frenk]

I wonder if that's what really will happen?

But while we're mass debating people are being killed. Children are being killed. It's a war in Ukraine and we're
saying well I'm okay Jack.

I don’t disagree with you at all. But that’s all that is here, mass debating, we really have no control over the actions our leaders will take on this. I am certainly not ok with children being killed, but, we on the other hand have sat by while mass genocide has taken place in African countries.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

I agree but do you join in a war that inevitably ends up turning nuclear and threatens the lives of billions of people? Do we have a right to make that decision for all those people?

I think the US is comfortable with Putin weakening his armed forces. Whilst the sanctions the world have put in place, should ensure that Russia can never again fund an invasion of a sovereign state.

There will be IMO a negotiated ceasefire. Putin will gain some territory in the Donbas region and Ukraine will formally recognise Crimea as being Russian.

However by engaging in this illegal invasion Putin will have effectively finished Russia as a world power and it will exist as a rogue state, similar to North Korea.

Loser in all of this will be the Ukrainian people who have seen their world destroyed. Hopefully the seized Russian assets can somehow be used to help rebuild their towns, cities and economy.

 

[PhilM]

I think this is beyond a point of no return.

I am angry, really really angry, that we "the west" are standing by and watching Russia slaughter and destroy Ukraine. This is the first mistake of the "the west". Nevermind the sanctions, and "Putin must fail" mantra. It's absolutely not even a grain of relevance to the people being bombed, killed and displaced. It also punishes ordinary Russian people who let's face it, are controlled, so they are doubley punished.

The Second World War had already begun in Europe before Germany invaded Poland. That was the trigger to declare war on Germany but the US didn't come in until after Pearl Harbour.

Snapshot from Wiki:
"In Europe, Germany and Italy were becoming more aggressive. In March 1938, Germany annexed Austria, again provoking little response from other European powers.[52] Encouraged, Hitler began pressing German claims on the Sudetenland, an area of Czechoslovakia with a predominantly ethnic German population."

Officially yes, but the US were as close to being involved as possible without actually being at war: the repealing of the Neutrality Act (1937); Lend Lease.

That's just in Europe, whereas in 1940 there were the US oil and metal embargoes on the IJN alongside the limitations on wider Japanese shipping.

Officially they were not at war, no, but FDR was more than edging towards it as quickly as he could. I'd say that the US, at this point, is far from this position.

The difference now is the threat that Russia posses with their nuclear arsenal. Regardless of their failing capabilities in other military terms, it's there.

From my perspective, that's where the caution comes from before all the other elements that may play a part such as political unwillingness or finances.

It's easy to make similarities with the run up to WWII and of course there's some there, but it isn't as simple as that. Right now, Russia is doing a lot of damage...

... to itself.

 

[peteblue]

I think the US is comfortable with Putin weakening his armed forces. Whilst the sanctions the world have put in place, should ensure that Russia can never again fund an invasion of a sovereign state.

There will be IMO a negotiated ceasefire. Putin will gain some territory in the Donbas region and Ukraine will formally recognise Crimea as being Russian.

However by engaging in this illegal invasion Putin will have effectively finished Russia as a world power and it will exist as a rogue state, similar to North Korea.

Loser in all of this will be the Ukrainian people who have seen their world destroyed. Hopefully the seized Russian assets can somehow be used to help rebuild their towns, cities and economy.

Until the next time….

 

[Zatara]

What size batteries? AA?

They won't be batteries but 48 hour reserve diesel generators that could be refuelled.

There are other things that can be done. Once through cooling with hoses and an emptying pump for example but that's going to carry some contam out with it.

Just fix the power supply now please.

If they spike the diesel generator fuel tanks the emergency backup is the DC Battery system.

Banks of batteries all fully charged for an emergency.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Until the next time….

Taiwan comes to mind

 

[Martin Alvito]

He is unlikely to provoke atrocities from the Ukranians though because Putin's army is targetting civilians, and Ukranians are only engaging with invading forces as you say, and not Russian civilians.

Those civilians have relatives and friends in the military. Some of those very angry people will want payback, and sooner or later some of them will likely be unable to restrain themselves.