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The glass ceiling....truth or fiction.

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Great response, so rather than have a bunch of teams in with a shout of winning the league you are happier basically in august of being able to predict the final standings in may.

It is not intended to be sarcastic, but if you want to see a fiercely competitive league which will probably be so for at least a few seasons, your best bet is go for the MLS today.
 
...you have to think that in the days of Kendal and Clough there was less of a financial gap between teams. When I was growing up through the 60s and 70s every team had top players and there was little movement between teams. Look at the make-up of England during those times and you will see the likes of Fulham and West Ham represented. Money is far more significant today and its hard to see any team making it to the top in this league without investment.
 
Everton winning the league under current circumstances is just ridiculous.

We had a very good manager (someone who I rate higher than Martinez, you're welcome to disagree) and we didn't get anywhere near. Even if by some miracle we reached the champions league it'd be a flash in the pan. We'd never have the resources to maintain it. Depressing but realistic.

This unfortunately. Money makes more difference than some like to think.
 
It is not intended to be sarcastic, but if you want to see a fiercely competitive league which will probably be so for at least a few seasons, your best bet is go for the MLS today.

Not a problem, but living in Toronto now I have to suffer not only with Toronto FC but the MLS in general. The standard of football does not compare, and I must admit I get bored easily watching it. So the options are a mediocre league which is more competitive or a league that is better to watch yet not as competitive. Perhaps the problem is I remember the old english 1st division where you had competition and quality
 
The last team to win the League without spending a vast fortune either on transfers and or wages was probably Nottingham Forest in 1978.

The last team to win multiple cups without spending a vast fortune either on transfers and or wages was probably Notts County in 1895.

Hopefully you get my point.

^ the answer to the OP's question is right there.
 
Nothing to add to this thread but to say what great thread it is to read, makes a change from all the back biting and bile that's spouted on other threads keep it up fellas really enjoying it.

Well said mate, nice to see a sensible discussion with little bickering on the Everton forum (y)

I think its obvious there is a glass ceiling which does make it pretty damn hard for teams below that ceiling to win the title. The more money you have, the easier it is to buy better players and more of them. And in that scenario the ability of the manager becomes less important.

Doesn't mean its impossible to perform better than other teams with more money than you if you can do better than them in other areas. Real life isn't champ manager and having a succesful side isn't as simple as buying the best players.

While money may be the easiest way of gaining success there are numerous other factors that come into play and managerial abilty is just one of them. Its interesting to see who people rate as good managers and who they don't, most of the time the most successful ones are rated the best and the least successful the worst.
 
Great debate lads. I have massive doubts if a manager alone could break it but I certainly hope that's the case (because otherwise we are SOL).

I know a lot of people's eyes glass over when anyone mentions a sport other than football ... BUT ...

Baseball. Interminably boring roided-up rounders it may be but it manages to have some non-rich teams succeed in a way we don't really see in the PL.

Yes it has playoffs but it also has 162 regular season games and less playoff spots than most US sports. In other words the chances of a poor team just getting lucky over a 162 game sample is fairly low.

It has massive disparity in terms of rich teams v. poor. Maybe not quite as much as the PL but still massive compared with the NFL. I believe at some points in history you've had "they spend more on one player than this other team does on its entire roster" type situations.

It does have a draft which helps poor teams (although it's less valuable in baseball than some other sports).

What it has had over the last 10-15 years especially is a couple of teams (A's and Rays in particular) with a massive organizational-wide commitment to statistical analysis and data-driven decisions.

Unfortunately (since it is so prevalent in US sports now) it means most of the big PL teams use this stuff as well. But there may still be a chance there to find some advantages.

If we had a plan and decided to spend heavily on this area (to the point where we'd pump crazy money ... 5-10m* into that division and it would mean we'd be doing that rather than signing a player) it might be an edge.

I know not many will agree but that's just my take on what might work v. hoping we manage to get two years out of the next Mourinho before he inevitably just buggers off to Barca or Chelsea.

If winning cups get us into CL then it would be another story. But, alas, the CL club wanted to keep the access to the cup to themselves. The best way for Everton to get into CL might be buying out a no-name Welsh team and try to prop it up with our B team.
Holy crap I love that idea and am disturbed I never thought it up myself.

Obviously it's a massive a-hole move but maybe it would start a conversation about the Champions League and how more teams from the leagues which make the Champions League possible (as such a massive competition) should have a chance to compete.

Most of the teams in the CL are not champions. So that's already established.

Are we and Spurs better than most of the teams in the early qualifiers? Yes.

Not saying you'd dump the Welsh (and similar countries) Champs out. Just one more round of qualifiers maybe.

* Yes I know we have no money.
 
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The welsh team idea is brilliant.

Kenwright could buy the welsh champions for what 10 grand?

Then loan them our squad players while we pay the wages until they get into the group stages, where in they'll make lots of money he can pump into everton. And our players can get CL exposure early which will attract youngsters to us.

And because of platini diving the Cl qualifiers into champions and non champions the welsh team will qualify easier than everton would.
 
No glass ceiling for the German club sides,spent a fraction of what their rivals spent,pay less in the way of wages,and ticket prices are lower.
It can be done ! Not everything is relative as to what you spend. The Bundesliga is living proof of this.
 
On the pitch we have done well to have held our ground and then some but off the pitch we have been loosing that game every year.

IMHO the gap will get wider with each year with the people and plans of the pitch leading to a gradual decline on the pitch.

Adapt or Die
 
No glass ceiling for the German club sides,spent a fraction of what their rivals spent,pay less in the way of wages,and ticket prices are lower.
It can be done ! Not everything is relative as to what you spend. The Bundesliga is living proof of this.

Their is a glass ceiling though its called bayern..
 
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