The glass ceiling....truth or fiction.

[Goat]

Over the history of the German football championship 28 different teams have won the title. The most successful side is FC Bayern Munich with 23 titles to its credit, most of those coming in Bundesliga competition.

Twenty three clubs have been champions, from a total of 8 regions. The North West accounts for exactly half of all total championship wins with 57 of 114 seasons, England.

9 Clubs have been Champions of Spain.

The following table lists the performance of each club describing winners of the Championship. 16 teams have been champions of Italy.

 

[steken1]

I believe it's against the rules to have a controlling interest in two sides in the same competitions. Wouldn't be mega hard to get past.

 

[roydo]

I believe it's against the rules to have a controlling interest in two sides in the same competitions. Wouldn't be mega hard to get past.

I will just borrow some cash from Phillip Green.

Fixed.

 

[sbbefc]

No glass ceiling for the German club sides,spent a fraction of what their rivals spent,pay less in the way of wages,and ticket prices are lower.
It can be done ! Not everything is relative as to what you spend. The Bundesliga is living proof of this.

Look at german league history though?

Bundesliga: FC Bayern Munich (22 titles), Borussia Mönchengladbach and Borussia Dortmund (5), Werder Bremen (4), Hamburger SV and VfB Stuttgart (3), 1. FC Köln and FC Kaiserslautern (2), TSV 1860 Munich, Eintracht Braunschweig, 1. FC Nuremberg and VfL Wolfsburg (1)

22 titles compared to the next best of 5. And thats only going to get worse with the amount of spending Bayern are doing. The only advantage the other teams have got is that they only need one club to have a bad season where we need 3 to even get 4th. Even then its rare Bayern cock up.

 

[sbbefc]

Beaten to it.

 

[bourneblue]

Their is a glass ceiling though its called bayern..

I can guarantee you they spent a whole lot less than any of their champions league rivals, including Man city,Man utd,Chelsea,Real madrid ,Barcelona and the likes.

 

[Allezfan]

I believe it's against the rules to have a controlling interest in two sides in the same competitions. Wouldn't be mega hard to get past.

We're never in the Cl for a start.

There's no restriction on the number of loaned players a team can play in the champions league.

This year the welsh champions (TNS) played legia warsaw of poland, molde of norway and then either steaua of romania or kazan of russia.

That's a decent pre season for our lads, lend out the first team and call them back for the time the league kicks off. Then watch our reserves soak up the group stage money, hell given the size of welsh team grounds you could even have the games at goodison.

 

[Allezfan]

Its interesting to see who people rate as good managers and who they don't, most of the time the most successful ones are rated the best and the least successful the worst.

I think there's two different types of good managers.

There's builders and winners.

Winners, like del bosque, lattek, kovacs, paisley, benitez, ancelotti, hiddink, capello, mancini etc, will win you trophies if given a good team with good players and money to spend.

And that's fine, that's a really useful skill to have and one a lot of teams need. And those managers do very well out of the game and win a lot of silver.

But it's no use at everton. Where we need a league challenging team to be built because we don't have one.

And for me the best of the best (the top 40 managers to ever live say), the truly world class can both build and win.

 

[steken1]

We're never in the Cl for a start.

There's no restriction on the number of loaned players a team can play in the champions league.

This year the welsh champions (TNS) played legia warsaw of poland, molde of norway and then either steaua of romania or kazan of russia.

That's a decent pre season for our lads, lend out the first team and call them back for the time the league kicks off. Then watch our reserves soak up the group stage money, hell given the size of welsh team grounds you could even have the games at goodison.

Laughing and scratching my head at the same time. Surely that the point of our devilish scheme?

I think it means any UEFA sanctioned competitions.

 

[Allezfan]

Laughing and scratching my head at the same time. Surely that the point of our devilish scheme?

I think it means any UEFA sanctioned competitions.

The point of our devilish sceme is to make loads of money putting our reserves through europe until kenwright is really rich and then he can b̶u̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶s̶l̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ buy us ronaldo and bale so we can win the league.

By the time we're in europe ourselves it will already be too late, mhwahahahaha!

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I think there's two different types of good managers.

There's builders and winners.

Winners, like del bosque, lattek, kovacs, paisley, benitez, ancelotti, hiddink, capello, mancini etc, will win you trophies if given a good team with good players and money to spend.

And that's fine, that's a really useful skill to have and one a lot of teams need. And those managers do very well out of the game and win a lot of silver.

But it's no use at everton. Where we need a league challenging team to be built because we don't have one.

And for me the best of the best (the top 40 managers to ever live say), the truly world class can both build and win.

Yeah but what makes them winners? Is it something inbuilt inside them that allows them to take a team with good players and money to spend and make them winners, or was it the fact they were given a good team with money to spend so half the job is done for them? Are managers who win the lower leagues but then get relegated from the Prem winners or losers?

Obviously if a manager can gain success at different teams in different comps you can say he is the common denominator so its probably just as much his ability that meant his teams won things as it is the club he's at. I mean look at Mourinho, widely regarded as one of the best in the world but he ain't managing Bolton is he?

Its just as much circumstance and being given the right tools to do a good job that means a manager can do a good job.

2 good managers of similar ability could have 2 widely differeing careers due to numerous factors outside of their actually ability.

 

[allezlesbleus]

The last team to win the League without spending a vast fortune either on transfers and or wages was probably Nottingham Forest in 1978.

The last team to win multiple cups without spending a vast fortune either on transfers and or wages was probably Notts County in 1895.

Hopefully you get my point.

Actually I think it was us in 85 and 87 although I agree with your main point.
Southall Stevens VDH Rat Degsy Reid Steven Heath sharp gray bracewell sheedy richardson harper was a squad that cost buttons, only Heath was relatively dear at £700,000 bracewell at £400,000, tricky trev at £300,000 cost what would be considered a few bob.
Forests achievements per pound were absolutely excellent though.

 

[steken1]

Does anybody think that if the Alex Ferguson who was in charge at Aberdeen walked into Goodison tomorrow we'd still be in a similar position to the one we're in now in five or ten years time?

 

[Allezfan]

Does anybody think that if the Alex Ferguson who was in charge at Aberdeen walked into Goodison tomorrow we'd still be in a similar position to the one we're in now in five or ten years time?

No, I don't.

 

[WA Toffee]

We are told that without hundreds of millions it is impossible to compete at the top table today .
Is that really true ?

A young Mourinho conquered Europe with a team that cost buttons(relatively) from one of the lesser European leagues.

Would a young Howard Kendall or a young Brian Clough or a young Alex Ferguson prove that it is the managers ability that hits the ceiling rather than it genuinely being impossible for a club without great riches to compete.

Unfortunately these talented young managers are spotted early and move very quickly to the wealthier clubs.

Remember in the 1980s the team that Kendall built was from a ragbag of sources , a collection of players that would be mocked mercilessly by certain posters on GOT if it had existed then.
Sheedy,a Liverppol reserve,Reid, a crock,Southall,a binman, Gray,another crock,Sharp, a young Scottish striker..the new McFaddenor the new Naismith.
We had to change banks to borrow 60k to allow HK buy Reid. Yet from this hotchpotch he assembled probably the best team in Europe or a team that was right up there amongst the best.

I think a young Kendall or a young Clough or a young Ferguson could do that again.

I am hoping that it can be done by a young Martinez.

But could a young Mourinho have taken that Porto team and won the league in England, Spain or Italy? It's all very well winning a cup competition as this is a bit of a lottery (remember that they played Monaco in the final and were within a minute of being knocked out by Man Utd iirc) - doing it game after game after game in the league is very different.
Which would explain why England only has 3 teams winning the league in 19 of the last 20 years or so, but quite a few different teams managing to win cups.

Money isn't guaranteed to give you success, but you can guarantee you won't have success without money