Moyes or The Board?

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

He WAS tactically poor.

Man Utd hiring him means sod all.He was Fergusons mate and a hand-picked appointment

So he got the job because he was Fergie's 'mate'? haha, so the best manager the game has ever seen decided to anoint a clueless tactician as his replacement at one of the biggest clubs on the planet, merely because he liked the fella? Ok mate.

 

[The Hairy Splinter]

Claiming that Distin cost us that derby is misinformation - no, we were completely in control of that game until Sylvain did his thing.

And that Neville did (given we were playing like fools and already behind at that point) - yes we were behind but that second goal knocked the stuffing out of the team.

He WAS tactically poor - no he wasn't - one tiny example was the Goodison derby of 2004 when Carsley tracked Gerrard all over the pitch until Moyes took the shackles off him and he went up and scored the winner

The fact Kenwright allowed Moyes to take us all for mugs doesn't excuse Moyes for doing so. Yes it does, it's the people doing the allowing who are to blame

It only means something if he does something there. You may be right there; time will tell.

 

[Tubey]

Claiming that Distin cost us that derby is misinformation - no, we were completely in control of that game until Sylvain did his thing. We really weren't - we dropped back 10 yards all over the pitch and were badly under pressure right out of the dressing room, clearly under instructions from Moyes to keep things tight. The goal was coming.

And that Neville did (given we were playing like fools and already behind at that point) - yes we were behind but that second goal knocked the stuffing out of the team. I'd agree if there was any sign of a resurgency prior to that goal; there wasn't. We didn't start the game and that's a tactical failing from Moyes.

He WAS tactically poor - no he wasn't - one tiny example was the Goodison derby of 2004 when Carsley tracked Gerrard all over the pitch until Moyes took the shackles off him and he went up and scored the winner If you really believe Moyes was a tactical genius I can't help you. Being a human with a pair of eyes, I beg to differ, but each to their own.

The fact Kenwright allowed Moyes to take us all for mugs doesn't excuse Moyes for doing so. Yes it does, it's the people doing the allowing who are to blame So the person who actually takes advantage of the situation and shats on the fans is blameless? OK...

It only means something if he does something there. You may be right there; time will tell.

I don't get why people want to rewrite history on Moyes. There's nothing wrong with saying it as it is - Moyes was stellar in the transfer market, mediocre to poor in other areas of management. He benefited from the sale of Rooney early on in his management and the reinvestment of that cash.

Again, he'd be a superstar Director of Football, and I genuinely think that's how he'll end up once he is sacked by United, but as an overall manager he is lacklustre.

 

[Tubey]

So he got the job because he was Fergie's 'mate'? haha, so the best manager the game has ever seen decided to anoint a clueless tactician as his replacement at one of the biggest clubs on the planet, merely because he liked the fella? Ok mate.

So he didn't get invited to the fellas house and told he had the job?

Could have sworn a certain ginger manager said exactly this. Not exactly the job interview process for someone who isn't a good friend eh?

 

[By god I'm blue]

So he didn't get invited to the fellas house and told he had the job?

Could have sworn a certain ginger manager said exactly this. Not exactly the job interview process for someone who isn't a good friend eh?

I heard his interview the other day, makes you realise how much he idolizes Ferguson.

Ferguson - Mr Burns

Moyes - Smithers

We all saw what happened when Monty Burns retired and sold to the Germans, Smithers couldn't cope.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

So he didn't get invited to the fellas house and told he had the job?

Could have sworn a certain ginger manager said exactly this. Not exactly the job interview process for someone who isn't a good friend eh?

Oh behave, a man of the calibre of Ferguson isn't going to hand over the reigns of the biggest club in the country & one of the largest in the World, after his 26 years reign, to somebody, merely because it's 'his mate'.

He selected Moyes as he thought he was the best man for the job & no doubt because he saw something of himself in him.

To try & dumb down his appointment as nothing more than the act of a 'mate' is ridiculous.

 

[Tubey]

Oh behave, a man of the calibre of Ferguson isn't going to hand over the reigns of the biggest club in the country & one of the largest in the World, after his 26 years reign, to somebody, merely because it's 'his mate'.

He selected Moyes as he thought he was the best man for the job & no doubt because he saw something of himself in him.

To try & dumb down his appointment as nothing more than the act of a 'mate' is ridiculous.

Of course he did. Moyes was the ideal man for the job as Ferguson knew him as a friend and felt confident he'd carry on in the same mould. But if he wasn't Moyes' mate then he wouldn't have hand picked him - and he certainly wouldn't have invited him to his house to tell him so. Whilst still contracted to Everton by the way, but let's leave that aside.

It's naive in the extreme to suggest that Ferguson hand picked Moyes and that being his mate wasn't a pivotal reason. There are many, many more qualified managers in world football who could have been given the United job if the recruitment process was less partisan.

 

[nsno-chris]

So he didn't get invited to the fellas house and told he had the job?

Could have sworn a certain ginger manager said exactly this. Not exactly the job interview process for someone who isn't a good friend eh?

I'm sorry but thats got nothing to do with him being his mate. There would have discussions between Utd's board, Directors and Ferguson.

The fact that he did it by inviting him round his one of simplicity; instead of going United though his agent, press releases etc etc, it was a simple man to man meeting where the job was offered to him by a legend of football, it would have felt more personal to Moyes that Ferguson had done that,

 

[Tubey]

I'm sorry but thats got nothing to do with him being his mate. There would have discussions between Utd's board, Directors and Ferguson.

The fact that he did it by inviting him round his one of simplicity; instead of going United though his agent, press releases etc etc, it was a simple man to man meeting where the job was offered to him by a legend of football, it would have felt more personal to Moyes that Ferguson had done that,

Right OK, so Moyes was handpicked by Ferguson and being his friend had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Gee, this rewriting history stuff is fun. No wonder "Moyesiah" fans are such a fan of it.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Of course he did. Moyes was the ideal man for the job as Ferguson knew him as a friend and felt confident he'd carry on in the same mould. But if he wasn't Moyes' mate then he wouldn't have hand picked him - and he certainly wouldn't have invited him to his house to tell him so. Whilst still contracted to Everton by the way, but let's leave that aside.

It's naive in the extreme to suggest that Ferguson hand picked Moyes and that being his mate wasn't a pivotal reason. There are many, many more qualified managers in world football who could have been given the United job if the recruitment process was less partisan.

By honing in on their personal friendship it conveniently glosses over the fact, that a man who you class as having the 'tactical ability of a sheep' was personally selected to take over from the greatest ever football manager, by the man himself.

I'll take Fergies judgement over yours mate, as it's one I also share.

 

[Tubey]

By honing in on their personal friendship it conveniently glosses over the fact, that a man who you class as having the 'tactical ability of a sheep' was personally selected to take over from the greatest ever football manager, by the man himself.

I'll take Fergies judgement over yours mate, as it's one I also share.

Ferguson also thought Eric Djemba-Djemba and Bebe would improve his squad - he makes mistakes. Also, Ferguson has no track record whatsoever of judging managerial talent as it's not his job. Even Bill Kenwright is more qualified.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Ferguson also thought Eric Djemba-Djemba and Bebe would improve his squad. Also, Ferguson has no track record whatsoever of judging managerial talent. Even Bill Kenwright is more qualified.

So now you're trying to belittle Fergusons credentials to make a considered judgement, based on a couple of poor transfers & the fact that he's not had to pick a successor before as he's been in the job for 26 years. hahahahah, you couldn't make it up!

Ok then mate, your judgement is better than the Worlds greatest ever manager, there you go, you win the internets

 

[Tubey]

So now you're trying to belittle Fergusons credentials to make a considered judgement, based on a couple of poor transfers & the fact that he's not had to pick a successor before as he's been in the job for 26 years. hahahahah, you couldn't make it up!

Ok then mate, your judgement is better than the Worlds greatest ever manager, there you go, you win the internets

I'm not saying that; I'm saying that Moyes taking the job at Man Utd is no proof whatsoever of his tactical ability. You're the only person who believes it is.

The proof is when he starts his job at Man Utd. After 38 Premier League games in that job we'll know for sure. If he finishes 3rd/4th, which I believe he will, then we'll know won't we?

What I do know for certain right now is that tactically at Everton he was shown to be piss poor on the big occasion, and his transfer nous was so overwhelmingly brilliant that it lofted us above the dregs in the league to the point where we had the talent to pretty much automatically finish top ten. Again, I cannot understand how an Evertonian who has watched us over the last 11 years can come to any other conclusion.

 

[Billy Dean]

I would say this is more important than any of your opinion based arguments or his transfer dealings:

Pre Moyes
1992-93 42 7 6 8 26 27 8 2 11 27 28 -2 53 13th
1993-94 42 8 4 9 26 30 4 4 13 16 33 -21 44 17th
1994-95 42 8 9 4 31 23 3 8 10 13 28 -7 50 15th
1995-96 38 10 5 4 35 19 7 5 7 29 25 +20 61 6th
1996-97 38 7 4 8 24 22 3 8 8 20 35 -13 42 15th
1997-98 38 7 5 7 25 27 2 8 9 16 29 -15 40 17th
1998-99 38 6 8 5 22 12 5 2 12 20 35 -7 43 14th
1999-2k 38 7 9 3 36 19 5 5 9 23 28 +12 50 13th
2000-01 38 6 8 5 29 27 5 1 13 16 32 -14 42 16th
2001-02 38 8 4 7 26 23 3 6 10 19 34 -12 43 15th

Post Moyes

2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th
2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th
2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th
2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th
2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th
2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th
2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th
2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th
2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th
2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th
2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6th

Now bearing in mind his transfer policiy was considered poor as well and add to your your list of course and mine (I posted a fairly extensive one people had been starting threads about a page back)... Maybe you can explain how the above happened?

You see, things like we were boring, or Moyes was tactically inept etc are opinons.. Opinions that many don't agree with.

The above is not an opinion, its an inarguable fact. Under Moyes we went from turgid rubbish to quality and changed us from whipping boys, to a respected club again. That means something to some people.
That you think people like Moyes just because of his transfers is massively misrepresenting a large portion of our fan base.

wages? who paid more wages than us and finished below us? Only Liverpool, Villa, QPR. So we overachieve a bit but not massively so.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

What I do know for certain right now is that tactically at Everton he was shown to be piss poor on the big occasion, and his transfer nous was so overwhelmingly brilliant that it lofted us above the dregs in the league to the point where we had the talent to pretty much automatically finish top ten. Again, I cannot understand how an Evertonian who has watched us over the last 11 years can come to any other conclusion.

I've been watching us for 35 years & I totally disagree with the sweeping statements that you've made there. Moyes made mistakes, both in terms of selection & tactics, during his 11 year reign - the same as every manager does. Given the length of tenure, it's easy to pick out some examples of when he got it wrong.

However, to state categorically that he was tactically poor & that the only reason we improved our league standing was down to his nouse in the transfer market, is absolute rot & ignores the fact that he managed to get results week in & week out. His attention to detail is well documented & whilst he maybe would set his sides out to nullify the opposition at times, rather than impose ourselves (which was frustrating at times) this doesn't make him tactically inept & to suggest it does is pure folly & says more about your understanding of the game imho.

The 'piss poor on the big occasion' always has a selective application by those who used to try & beat him with it. We won plenty of 'big games' during his tenure, I think it's a cheap shot tbh.