Moyes or The Board?

[Ihaters]

Oh I don't blame Moyes for transfer policy at all. I think the man is a complete genius when it comes to spotting a talent. All I'm saying is that he was tactically woeful and bottled it in the big games all the time.

I don't irrationally hate Moyes, it's just that unlike his loyal fans I'm able to point out his flaws instead of thinking he's the "Moyesiah", whatever that means.

I've pointed out flaws of his too, called him disgusting in his behavior over Baines and agreed with several of the slights made against him, he is a negative manager, he does make unusual and unpopular substitutions, I too am not blinded when it comes to Moyes, but he is far better than just transfers and the facts prove it.

You and several others around here seem to think he's entirely made of flaws.. in your case except for transfers... others can't even bring themselves to give him that.

Even with the transfers, that certainly wouldn't be enough to get us 4th with the team he had when he did it, or a cup final with a depleted team for that matter, because that takes motivation and tactical nous, and significant managerial ability, and that is the reason why I think Martinez is someone to back as well, because he has displayed that and managed to go that extra step.

Not sure of the origin of the term Moysiah by the way, but I expect it is something someone cleverly came out with either when he got us to 4th or Wembley.. neither of which would of happened if he was tactically as bad you think.

 

[Tubey]

I've pointed out flaws of his too, called him disgusting in his behavior over Baines and agreed with several of the slights made against him, he is a negative manager, he does make unusual and unpopular substitutions, I too am not blinded when it comes to Moyes, but he is far better than just transfers and the facts prove it.

You and several others around here seem to think he's entirely made of flaws.. in your case except for transfers... others can't even bring themselves to give him that.

Even with the transfers, that certainly wouldn't be enough to get us 4th with the team he had when he did it, or a cup final with a depleted team for that matter, because that takes motivation and tactical nous, and significant managerial ability, and that is the reason why I think Martinez is someone to back as well, because he has displayed that and managed to go that extra step.

Not sure of the origin of the term Moysiah by the way, but I expect it is something someone cleverly came out with either when he got us to 4th or Wembley.. neither of which would of happened if he was tactically as bad you think.

They would have though, based solely on the talent on the pitch. The difference between Moyes and a tactically astute, winning mentality manager is that when you get into the position to push on, you have the ability inspire, motivate and make the right choices. The amount of times Moyes has done this you can count on one hand.

Let me put it this way - the Man City squad could manage themselves and still end up in the top four at the end of the year because the overall quality of the squad is so high.

That was the situation at Everton. Moyes' transfer nous was so overwhelmingly good that the overall quality of the squad was enough to lift us above the dross below us, regardless of his obvious tactical limitations.

I don't see what is wrong with praising Moyes for the genuinely brilliant attributes he has whilst acknowledging his glaringly obvious failings. There's a definite desire amongst some to paint the guy as flawless when he is anything but. Not you by the way, but definitely some.

 

[njligernj]

Complete and utter nonsense. If Moyes wins the league, he proves me wrong, because you have to do it consistently over 38 games and do it when the pressure is on. Simple as. You're being flippant and unreasonable and misconstruing my position.

LOL ... steady on I wasn't talking about you at all. Go back and read it ... I said "people" ... as in people in general. Wasn't directed at you (or any specific person for that matter) ... ya ego maniac. If someone offered me one million quid to name a single person who had posted in this thread other than myself I would have just been guessing. If it was directed at you I would have multi-quoted your words ... I never miss a chance to quote FFS.

I haven't got the slightest idea if you were one of the people who said Moyes would never get the Man U job and I had no idea how you'd react if Moyes won the league (well I do now obviously).

I was just saying that some people (not you!) were 100% adamant he would never get the job and when he did there was hardly a mass mea culpa. TBF a few did own up but a lot just switched to a whole new argument (this one!).

So that was point: it didn't end when people were proven completely wrong about him getting a top job (when he got THE top job) and I doubt it will end if he wins the league (although apparently it will end as far as you're concerned ... which is great).

Hope I'm wrong. Just my impression of a certain set of people (not you!).

 

[Allezfan]

It's not just the transfer market, though. Moye's teams's were often better than the sum of parts because of his abilty to make his favorites play for him. There was an atmosphere, a togetherness, a mutual loyalty that saw players he fancied (Baines, pienaar, cahill) reach heights they didn't elsewhere.

Of course it also meant he exiled those who didn't fit and he was reluctant to change thigns around when talented replacements knocked on the door.

I think you can simultaneously recognise that him leaving has probably the best for us, that his failure in cups held us back from winning trophies and that he was basically a mercenary with no respect for this club and also that his achievement in terms of league positions was impressive based on his resources.

Finishing 4th having spent less money than anyone else in the league and having lost your best player with a team that just avoided relegation the year earlier was a terrific achievement, one of the best managerial achievements in english football from the last 20 years..

Of course winning the FA Cup with wigan is a better one.

 

[Ihaters]

It's not just the transfer market, though. Moye's teams's were often better than the sum of parts because of his abilty to make his favorites play for him. There was an atmosphere, a togetherness, a mutual loyalty that saw players he fancied (Baines, pienaar, cahill) reach heights they didn't elsewhere.

Of course it also meant he exiled those who didn't fit and he was reluctant to change thigns around when talented replacements knocked on the door.

I think you can simultaneously recognise that him leaving has probably the best for us, that his failure in cups held us back from winning trophies and that he was basically a mercenary with no respect for this club and also that his achievement in terms of league positions was impressive based on his resources.

Finishing 4th having spent less money than anyone else in the league and having lost your best player with a team that just avoided relegation the year earlier was a terrific achievement, one of the best managerial achievements in english football from the last 20 years..

Of course winning the FA Cup with wigan is a better one.

Yep, what he said. There are of course more arguments pro and con, but the thought that maybe he was good with bad points or vice versa is one we should all be able to adhere to.

And I really like the thought of us having the two most successfully - isolated incident - achieving managers in succession is .. shall we say, borderline rose tinted.. but I like it.

 

[Ihaters]

They would have though, based solely on the talent on the pitch. The difference between Moyes and a tactically astute, winning mentality manager is that when you get into the position to push on, you have the ability inspire, motivate and make the right choices. The amount of times Moyes has done this you can count on one hand.

Let me put it this way - the Man City squad could manage themselves and still end up in the top four at the end of the year because the overall quality of the squad is so high.

That was the situation at Everton. Moyes' transfer nous was so overwhelmingly good that the overall quality of the squad was enough to lift us above the dross below us, regardless of his obvious tactical limitations.

I don't see what is wrong with praising Moyes for the genuinely brilliant attributes he has whilst acknowledging his glaringly obvious failings. There's a definite desire amongst some to paint the guy as flawless when he is anything but. Not you by the way, but definitely some.

QPR had talent and a s**t manager.

 

[nigelcoyb]

LOL ... steady on I wasn't talking about you at all. Go back and read it ... I said "people" ... as in people in general. Wasn't directed at you (or any specific person for that matter) ... ya ego maniac. If someone offered me one million quid to name a single person who had posted in this thread other than myself I would have just been guessing. If it was directed at you I would have multi-quoted your words ... I never miss a chance to quote FFS.

I haven't got the slightest idea if you were one of the people who said Moyes would never get the Man U job and I had no idea how you'd react if Moyes won the league (well I do now obviously).

I was just saying that some people (not you!) were 100% adamant he would never get the job and when he did there was hardly a mass mea culpa. TBF a few did own up but a lot just switched to a whole new argument (this one!).

So that was point: it didn't end when people were proven completely wrong about him getting a top job (when he got THE top job) and I doubt it will end if he wins the league (although apparently it will end as far as you're concerned ... which is great).

Hope I'm wrong. Just my impression of a certain set of people (not you!).

Being one who never believed he'd get a better job than here let alone the media circus of Utd the idea of SAF being kingmaker is key.

If someone had said Mourinho will be available at the same time SAF retires but guess what Utd will install Moyes the guffaws would have been heard up and down the country. Utd are owned by non football folk perhaps it's not so astonishing the outgoing manager had complete control over the incoming man for there were no interviews, no short list just a summons to Moyes to get round to Fergies pronto.

It's opinion of course but without SAF I don't think Moyes would have got a sniff - why should he?

 

[BoysInBlue]

David Moyes is many things.

An infuriating, dour bellend he is.

Poor in the transfer market he is not, the ginger knows a player.

Yet is not without his faults, and dropped some clangers over the years.

 

[The Hairy Splinter]

TUBEY WROTE >>>>>> You're being flippant and unreasonable and misconstruing my position.

TUBEY WROTE EARLIER >>>>>> If you really believe Moyes was a tactical genius I can't help you. Being a human with a pair of eyes, I beg to differ, but each to their own.

 

[Tubey]

TUBEY WROTE >>>>>> You're being flippant and unreasonable and misconstruing my position.

TUBEY WROTE EARLIER >>>>>> If you really believe Moyes was a tactical genius I can't help you. Being a human with a pair of eyes, I beg to differ, but each to their own.

I was flippant too - what's your point?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

They would have though, based solely on the talent on the pitch.

lol, that's the first time I've ever seen the 4th place finish being put down solely to the 'talent' on the pitch.

I can only assume that you were in short trousers in 2004, as if you genuinely believe that side was the 4th most gifted in PL that season, you're living in a parallel universe to me lad.

 

[Tubey]

lol, that's the first time I've ever seen the 4th place finish being put down solely to the 'talent' on the pitch.

I can only assume that you were in short trousers in 2004, as if you genuinely believe that side was the 4th most gifted in PL that season, you're living in a parallel universe to me lad.

So the league table lies?

First half of that season we were absolutely flying because our midfield with the likes of Gravesen, Cahill and Arteta were destroying teams. Gravesen left in January and we plummeted as Moyes couldn't re-adjust to his departure.

So essentially Moyes was brilliant in the transfer market with two amazing coups in Arteta and Cahill particularly. That is what propelled us in 2004.

We can rewrite history again if you like but that is what happened.

EDIT: Correction; Arteta came in January as the replacement for Gravesen. Still, overall point remains - stellar signings in key positions like Cahill, Martyn, the ridiculously underrated Carsley etc. built the squad up.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

So the league table lies?

First half of that season we were absolutely flying because our midfield with the likes of Gravesen, Cahill and Arteta were destroying teams. Gravesen left in January and we plummeted as Moyes couldn't re-adjust to his departure.

So essentially Moyes was brilliant in the transfer market with two amazing coups in Arteta and Cahill particularly. That is what propelled us in 2004.

We can rewrite history again if you like but that is what happened.

You must have been in short trousers then, as it's a million miles from what happened.

Moyes had us defending deep, with Stubbs & Weir having the pace of the Queen Mary - he had no real option I suppose.

We looked to hit sides on the counter or more often from a set piece & then cling on for a 1-0. Our squad was paper thin & when Gravesen went he left a massive hole, as he'd been superb in the first half of that season. Despite his departure Moyes managed to keep us in the pound seats with a squad that was lacking in depth & quality compared to our peers. He squeezed the absolute maximum out of that side via getting them to play in certain manner i.e. tactics. To put it solely down to his transfer dealings is absolute nads.

 

[Elong]

The amount of points we got in 2004 wouldn't even get us into the Europa last season, it was a **** season that favoured us.

 

[nsno-chris]

So the league table lies?

First half of that season we were absolutely flying because our midfield with the likes of Gravesen, Cahill and Arteta were destroying teams. Gravesen left in January and we plummeted as Moyes couldn't re-adjust to his departure.

So essentially Moyes was brilliant in the transfer market with two amazing coups in Arteta and Cahill particularly. That is what propelled us in 2004.

We can rewrite history again if you like but that is what happened.

Err didn't Arteta join in January on loan, as a replacement for Gravesen???