Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Then try a definition…p.s. the clue is in the title…….

Illegal Migration Act 2023

These documents relate to the Illegal Migration Bill which received Royal Assent on 20 July 2023.

www.gov.uk

Good analysis here:

Illegal Migration Act 2023 - UK in a changing Europe

Joelle Grogan and Alice Donald explain what the Illegal Migration Act sets out to do and which parts have been brought into force.

ukandeu.ac.uk

I'm not sure your claim of folk being economic migrants quite stacks up.

On a different matter Liberty have critiqued the act on the following grounds:

"The Illegal Migration Bill disturbs the devolution settlements in the UK by impinging on devolved matters without consent of the devolved nations and requiring devolved governments to engage in likely breaches of international human rights law which must be protected as a requirement of such devolution settlements."

In other words, the SOVEREIGNTY of the devolved countries is denied lessening their CONTROL over this issue, imposed by a centralised ruling block many view as imposing laws as FACELESS imperialistic bureaucrats they did not elect to rule them.

Which is kind of ironic.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You've changed the ballpark here mate.

You can tell the ignorance because it's legally impossible to claim asylum anywhere but UK soil. How do you get to UK soil without a visa? If Sunak actually wanted to stop the incredibly dangerous journey people go on, and indeed the traffickers that facilitate and exploit these journeys, he could do so in one swoop by saying you can claim asylum in any British embassy anywhere in the world. That'd do it, but he doesn't want to do that because he's a [Poor language removed] and doesn't actually "want" people to be able to claim asylum here because racists like Pete don't want brown people here.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

You can tell the ignorance because it's legally impossible to claim asylum anywhere but UK soil. How do you get to UK soil without a visa? If Sunak actually wanted to stop the incredibly dangerous journey people go on, and indeed the traffickers that facilitate and exploit these journeys, he could do so in one swoop by saying you can claim asylum in any British embassy anywhere in the world. That'd do it, but he doesn't want to do that because he's a [Poor language removed] and doesn't actually "want" people to be able to claim asylum here because racists like Pete don't want brown people here.

Aye, it's not like the legislation mentioned was created as a political stunt as much as about any meaningful concern.

 

[Jebus_lives]

And you seem to be confused about Asylum seekers escaping punishment for beliefs or race, who have passed through a wide variety of your much vaunted and compassionate EU countries but are actually economic migrants. Arriving by rubber dingy from France is illegal immigration and would be treated as such if they went from the U.K. to France in rubber boats all overseen and supervised by criminal gangs…..

You've had all night to read up on asylum rules and yet you're still churning out this nonsense.

It's not like you've been informed on multiple occasions. Oh wait...

Nothing legally, either in the 1951 Refugee Convention or EU law that requires a refugee to claim asylum in one country rather than another.

Although, the EU has the Dublin Regulations which let's an EU country require another to accept responsibility for an asylum claim where that tha person has previously entered another country or made a claim for asylum there.

*sigh

Ok

The truth about… refugees

Europe’s refugee crisis is getting worse, and if you listen to government ministers and many other political commentators, constitutes a dire threat.

www.amnesty.org.uk

You may have noticed that we're no longer a part of the EU so the Dublin Regulations don't apply any more, therefore the men, women, and children on those boats are in no way illegal.

Absolute myth that you have to claim asylum in the first country you enter into.

If one is claiming asylum, that is precisely what you can do

The truth about… refugees

Europe’s refugee crisis is getting worse, and if you listen to government ministers and many other political commentators, constitutes a dire threat.

www.amnesty.org.uk

Entering the UK to claim asylum

If you are in danger in your country of origin or residence, and you want the UK to grant you international protection, you can claim asylum when you are in the UK.

righttoremain.org.uk

The Refugee Crisis | Understand Refugee Facts | Care4Calais

Understand The Refugee Crisis with our resource of facts and information. Learn how best to take action and help refugees.

care4calais.org

It really is a shame that you don't make even the slightest effort to educate yourself on this matter, and perhaps you could start by understanding the journey people take to even get to Calais. Your remark about them "waltzing up and getting in a boat" is about the most insulting thing I've ever seen you write on here, and there has been a bloody long list.

You're mistaken I'm afraid. International law says there is no requirement for people to stay in the "first safe country" they enter.

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to show me here.

The truth about… refugees

Europe’s refugee crisis is getting worse, and if you listen to government ministers and many other political commentators, constitutes a dire threat.

www.amnesty.org.uk

Incidentally

Why accepting refugees is a win-win-win formula | Brookings

Dany Bahar explains how accepting refugees benefits more than just those being resettled.

www.brookings.edu

Migrants and refugees are good for economies

Analysis of 30 years of data from Western Europe refutes suggestions that asylum seekers pose a financial burden.

www.nature.com

Refugees are not a burden but an opportunity - OECD

Data and research on international migration including migration stocks and flows, immigrants in the labour market, integration and discrimination., When nearly a million Vietnamese “boat people” fled their country in the late 1970s and early 1980s and sought refuge elsewhere, they were...

www.oecd.org

Just for the record - claiming asylum, regardless of how you arrive in a country is not illegal.

No matter how many times people say "if you arrive on a boat you're illegal" it isn't true.

And neither do you have to stay in the first country you arrive in.

Some very distasteful stuff in these pages from people suggesting that Ukrainians are deserving of refuge because they are legal but those from Afghanistan/Iran/Syria are not because they are arriving by boat. It's not the case, the difference is purely how much support we're willing to offer Ukrainians to come here. I wonder what the difference is?

And for the argument of "how do you stop illegal immigration, Labour have got nothing"

The counter argument is that the current Tory policy is that they want to deport refugees and asylum seekers already here because those people arrived here on boats operated by people who are criminals and prey on vulnerability exploiting those most in need.

Nothing is stopping the UK government putting resource into safe passage routes, greater asylum processing, speedier court resolution for asylum claims...it just doesn't want to.

In fact, one of the pillars of Brexit, the ability to control our borders and stop illegal immigration, has made it harder because of the lack of Dublin Regs applying post Brexit.

The rest is this Government having no clue how to implement long term complex and strategic plans.

Also, it's not law anywhere that you have to seek asylum in the first country you enter into - not actual law or rule of thumb law*. The Dublin convention (I assume that's what @Joey66 thinks he's talking about) is an EU convention about processing responsibility of member states to process asylum applications. It was introduced to speed up the asylum process and stop duplication of effort in process applications. It sets out criteria to determine which country should process the application.

The EU have adopted a "new pact for immigration" which means that no one country is disproportionately affected by refugees.

Neither of these things apply to the UK as it's no longer in the EU. We have said we want to make bi-lateral arrangements with EU countries, but this far they haven't wanted to.

The UN Refugee convention doesn't state you have to apply to the first safe country you arrive in (also backed up in the UK case law) and the UN declaration of rights days you have the right to claim asylum.

It also doesn't matter if you come via small boat or not if you're "coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened”

Just a reminder lads...

 

[Jebus_lives]

Then try a definition…p.s. the clue is in the title…….

Illegal Migration Act 2023

These documents relate to the Illegal Migration Bill which received Royal Assent on 20 July 2023.

www.gov.uk

Now do international law...

 

[Jebus_lives]

And there ended any sensible discussion….

You're not a sensible person Pete.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Aye, it's not like the legislation mentioned was created as a political stunt as much as about any meaningful concern.

That a politician in this country will gladly use people who have been through hell to score political points should bar them from any meaningful position ever again. Sadly, they do it because we have a sizeable rump of reprobates in this country that lap it up.

 

[Jebus_lives]

That a politician in this country will gladly use people who have been through hell to score political points should bar them from any meaningful position ever again. Sadly, they do it because we have a sizeable rump of reprobates in this country that lap it up.

It's also a pointless law, because it only apllies to someone coming to the UK via small boat not claiming asylum.

Anyone arriving by small boat has the legal right to claim asylum when they arrive here *say it slowly for those slow on the uptake* regardless of how many safe countries they've already been through.

And as I said before, leaving the EU has made it harder to return people to a safe country in the EU because we are no longer subject to the Dublin convention.

 

[spectateur]

Unless they’re from Hong Kong. Parts of Bristol are now having to cope with a huge influx. Schools and NHS under increasing pressure. Somehow the government don’t see this as a problem.

I can see where you're coming from. Many cities are experiencing similar problems not only in England.
Open doors policy is a fine ideal but it does help to be in posession of the social facilties reqired to deal with it.

 

[Alan Whittle]

I can see where you're coming from. Many cities are experiencing similar problems not only in England.
Open doors policy is a fine ideal but it does help to be in posession of the social facilties reqired to deal with it.

The point I was making was the Government’s double standards. Those coming from Hong Kong are positively welcomed. There is either a government immigration policy or there isn’t.

 

[peteblue]

It's also a pointless law, because it only apllies to someone coming to the UK via small boat not claiming asylum.

Anyone arriving by small boat has the legal right to claim asylum when they arrive here *say it slowly for those slow on the uptake* regardless of how many safe countries they've already been through.

And as I said before, leaving the EU has made it harder to return people to a safe country in the EU because we are no longer subject to the Dublin convention.

So does the Dublin convention override this International Law you keep mentioning. So EU agreements can allow countries to remove asylum seekers to another safe country, but sovereign U.K. law cannot do so… Thanks for the lesson in International law……

 

[peteblue]

The point I was making was the Government’s double standards. Those coming from Hong Kong are positively welcomed. There is either a government immigration policy or there isn’t.

All immigrants arriving here lawfully are welcomed...the U.K. even made special provision for HK, Ukraine and Afghanistan. I‘m sure that they are all white people though……

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So does the Dublin convention override this International Law you keep mentioning. So EU agreements can allow countries to remove asylum seekers to another safe country, but sovereign U.K. law cannot do so… Thanks for the lesson in International law……

Never one to pass up the chance to show one's ignorance. The Dublin convention covers which country assesses the asylum claim of an individual. You will also note that having family in a country is the primary consideration.



So if you're trying to suggest comparisons with the abhorrent Rwanda scheme that positions the UK state as people traffickers in its own right then you're wrong.

 

[Jebus_lives]

So does the Dublin convention override this International Law you keep mentioning. So EU agreements can allow countries to remove asylum seekers to another safe country, but sovereign U.K. law cannot do so… Thanks for the lesson in International law……

I'm starting to think you genuinely don't understand what an asylum seeker is.

 

[peteblue]

I'm starting to think you genuinely don't understand what an asylum seeker is.

I‘m starting to think you are Bruce’s glove puppet…..