Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Name calling doesn’t help Pete. Of course no contract is “perfect”. Nothing is perfect. Countries enter into these things with that realistic view that they may not get everything that they want, not act like a spoilt child when something that should have been dealt with, wasn’t.
The EU will act in good faith as soon as Boris, Frost et al stop wanting to renegotiate the whole protocol.
Once again, it is only the opinion of one of the parties that “something is not right”.

I very much doubt that the EU will act in ‘good faith’. There will be one or two countries, with absolutely no interest in Ireland, who will seek to use it to gain some concession or whatever (probably France and fishing as Macron has an election next year). This is why trying to do a trade deal with the EU takes decades. The U.K. have maintained this ‘our EU friends’ for far too long. We are far too soft and trusting. They are not our friends, as is demonstrated by the French Navy escorting illegal immigrants into U.K. waters instead of stopping them, while we send them the money to do so….

 

[Alan Whittle]

I very much doubt that the EU will act in ‘good faith’. There will be one or two countries, with absolutely no interest in Ireland, who will seek to use it to gain some concession or whatever (probably France and fishing as Macron has an election next year). This is why trying to do a trade deal with the EU takes decades. The U.K. have maintained this ‘our EU friends’ for far too long. We are far too soft And trusting. They are not our friends, as is demonstrated by the French Navy escorting illegal immigrants into U.K. waters instead of stopping them, while we send them the money to do so….

You would have thought that the government might have realised the difficulty of doing a deal with the EU before we left instead of loudly proclaiming how easy it would be and how they needed us more than we needed them at every opportunity.
It is you who is always warning of this mystical EU Army and yet it is now us that are too soft and we are under threat from a rubber dinghy full of starving migrants.

 

[peteblue]

The “border issue” is a direct consequence of Brexit, something we instigated. No Brexit, no border issue. The Leave campaign and subsequent Tory governments either paid scant attention to the issue or tried to bluff their way out. That is why we are where we are. Continuing to blame the EU is laughable. ( I would have said vindictive and petty but that would have been vindictive and petty).

The U.K. and ROI have a CTA that preceded the Common Market. People can cross the border and from GB to ROI whenever they want. If the negotiations had been between the U.K. and ROI, there would be no issue, but the EU could not allow that. Anyway it doesn’t really matter now, there are still issues that need to be resolved and they either will be or the relationship between the U.K. and EU will diminish and deteriorate.…

 

[peteblue]

You would have thought that the government might have realised the difficulty of doing a deal with the EU before we left instead of loudly proclaiming how easy it would be and how they needed us more than we needed them at every opportunity.
It is you who is always warning of this mystical EU Army and yet it is now us that are too soft and we are under threat from a rubber dinghy full of starving migrants.

Tbh, you would have thought that after 50 years of membership and the lining up of laws and standards that it would be a simple affair. But of course the EU could never allow that because others might dare to vote to Leave. No, they had to make it as difficult as possible while trying to ensure that we could not compete with them. I fully understand that, I just find it difficult to understand why Europhiles cannot comprehend their approach…..

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I very much doubt that the EU will act in ‘good faith’. There will be one or two countries, with absolutely no interest in Ireland, who will seek to use it to gain some concession or whatever (probably France and fishing as Macron has an election next year). This is why trying to do a trade deal with the EU takes decades. The U.K. have maintained this ‘our EU friends’ for far too long. We are far too soft and trusting. They are not our friends, as is demonstrated by the French Navy escorting illegal immigrants into U.K. waters instead of stopping them, while we send them the money to do so….

Well that didn't take long, did it? I don't expect you to pay any attention, what with it being a legal definition and all, but someone seeking asylum in this country, as those on these boats are, is by no definition an "illegal immigrant". It's also a term that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees strongly advises against using. As you're not one of these racist Brexiteers I'm sure you're keen not to come across as one.

https://www.unhcr.org/cy/wp-content/uploads/sites/41/2018/09/TerminologyLeaflet_EN_PICUM.pdf

 

[Alan Whittle]

Tbh, you would have thought that after 50 years of membership and the lining up of laws and standards that it would be a simple affair. But of course the EU could never allow that because others might dare to vote to Leave. No, they had to make it as difficult as possible while trying to ensure that we could not compete with them. I fully understand that, I just find it difficult to understand why Europhiles cannot comprehend their approach…..

I was really thinking along the lines of 27 members, 27 voices. A monolith that has difficulty making decisions. One of the reasons given by Vote Leave for leaving as I recall. They are not doing anything different from what they have always done despite your continuing assertions that it is something more sinister.
The thing that puzzles me is, why anyone expected them to change, just because we have left.
We are free to make our own decisions, and so are they.

 

[peteblue]

Well that didn't take long, did it? I don't expect you to pay any attention, what with it being a legal definition and all, but someone seeking asylum in this country, as those on these boats are, is by no definition an "illegal immigrant". It's also a term that the UN High Commissioner for Refugees strongly advises against using. As you're not one of these racist Brexiteers I'm sure you're keen not to come across as one.

https://www.unhcr.org/cy/wp-content/uploads/sites/41/2018/09/TerminologyLeaflet_EN_PICUM.pdf

Sorry if I’ve used an incorrect term, but I didn’t think anyone from France qualifies as being an asylum seeker. Certainly not one who has already passed up the opportunity of seeking asylum in numerous peaceful European Countries. Perhaps the EU could look into this one…..

 

[roydo]

Tbh, you would have thought that after 50 years of membership and the lining up of laws and standards that it would be a simple affair. But of course the EU could never allow that because others might dare to vote to Leave. No, they had to make it as difficult as possible while trying to ensure that we could not compete with them. I fully understand that, I just find it difficult to understand why Europhiles cannot comprehend their approach…..

But we, well I, do. Most of us dont have much affection for the political side of the EU, and until the campaign started, didnt give it much thought.

But you have such an obvious almost hatred of it, so will pick on any thing to support your rather weird obsession, and rubbish everything the EU does. I get it. We all do it as football fans.

But whilst you have this hatred, vast swathes of leavers did not; they were swayed by the absolute nonsense that Farage et al spouted. I bet even you didnt buy most of it, so ridiculous it was.

But I didnt like nor believe the main protaganists. Thats the difference.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sorry if I’ve used an incorrect term, but I didn’t think anyone from France qualifies as being an asylum seeker. Certainly not one who has already passed up the opportunity of seeking asylum in numerous peaceful European Countries. Perhaps the EU could look into this one…..

*sigh

Ok

The truth about… refugees

Europe’s refugee crisis is getting worse, and if you listen to government ministers and many other political commentators, constitutes a dire threat.

www.amnesty.org.uk

Neither the 1951 Refugee Convention nor EU law requires a refugee to claim asylum in one country rather than another.

There is no rule requiring refugees to claim in the first safe country in which they arrive.

The EU does run a system – called the Dublin Regulations – which allows one EU country to require another to accept responsibility for an asylum claim where certain conditions apply.

The relevant conditions include that the person is shown to have previously entered that other EU country or made a claim there. This is supposed to share responsibility for asylum claims more equitably among EU countries and discourage people moving on from one EU country to another. But it doesn’t work.

You may have noticed that we're no longer a part of the EU so the Dublin Regulations don't apply any more, therefore the men, women, and children on those boats are in no way illegal.

 

[peteblue]

I was really thinking along the lines of 27 members, 27 voices. A monolith that has difficulty making decisions. One of the reasons given by Vote Leave for leaving as I recall. They are not doing anything different from what they have always done despite your continuing assertions that it is something more sinister.
The thing that puzzles me is, why anyone expected them to change, just because we have left.
We are free to make our own decisions, and so are they.

Indeed.…

 

[Xizor]

I’ll try just one more time. The agreement is between two parties. It isn’t working, therefore both parties need to find a way to make it work. If one party won’t then it’s article 16. just saying ‘we didn’t vote for it’ or ‘it’s nothing to do with the EU’ doesn’t really move anything forward does it.

No, one party has realised that they got their pants pulled down at the negotiating table and are now whining very loudly about it. Boris wasn't shy about using this amazing deal to get his big majority, was he? And multiple Tory MPs laughed in the Commons at the idea of proper parliamentary scrutiny. And yet now it's the millstone around the nation's neck, with the Tories once again successfully gaslighting simpletons like yourself that it's something the wicked EU imposed on us.

But enough of your repeated refusal to admit to culpability in the country's sad diminishment, you now demand people step in and solve the problem for you. Okay then, you've got exactly two broad avenues of travel (the same that have always been available because remainers have been warning over this for the WHOLE TIME):

1) Article 16, revoke all those years of 'progress' and go for the no deal that was always too scary for the UK to consider. Slams a wrecking ball through the GFA and so weakens our ties to the US at exactly the same moment we tear them up with the EU.

2) Align on SPS, removing the need for a border anywhere across GB/NI/ROI/EU. Starts to roll back from the hard brexit demaned by the ultras.

So that's it. The two other solutions to the trilemma now that Boris tried one and didn't like it. Where do we go from here?

 

[Jebus_lives]

*sigh

Ok

The truth about… refugees

Europe’s refugee crisis is getting worse, and if you listen to government ministers and many other political commentators, constitutes a dire threat.

www.amnesty.org.uk

You may have noticed that we're no longer a part of the EU so the Dublin Regulations don't apply any more, therefore the men, women, and children on those boats are in no way illegal.

Absolute myth that you have to claim asylum in the first country you enter into.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No, one party has realised that they got their pants pulled down at the negotiating table and are now whining very loudly about it. Boris wasn't shy about using this amazing deal to get his big majority, was he? And multiple Tory MPs laughed in the Commons at the idea of proper parliamentary scrutiny. And yet now it's the millstone around the nation's neck, with the Tories once again successfully gaslighting simpletons like yourself that it's something the wicked EU imposed on us.

But enough of your repeated refusal to admit to culpability in the country's sad diminishment, you now demand people step in and solve the problem for you. Okay then, you've got exactly two broad avenues of travel (the same that have always been available because remainers have been warning over this for the WHOLE TIME):

1) Article 16, revoke all those years of 'progress' and go for the no deal that was always too scary for the UK to consider. Slams a wrecking ball through the GFA and so weakens our ties to the US at exactly the same moment we tear them up with the EU.

2) Align on SPS, removing the need for a border anywhere across GB/NI/ROI/EU. Starts to roll back from the hard brexit demaned by the ultras.

So that's it. The two other solutions to the trilemma now that Boris tried one and didn't like it. Where do we go from here?

"A fantastic deal, on the table..."

 

[The binman chronicles]

I like how he said he voted as a business man for Brexit and now as a person he would vote to remain. Methinks he got them the wrong way around.