Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

You keep missing the point. We are where we are. Who’s fault that is and how we got here are irrelevant in respect of now putting it right. The Protocol or it’s application needs revisiting…..

It's not the EU's job to put things right. It's the UK government that signed up for the deal. It just baffles me that you continue to back someone who has at best proven to be completely incompetent and at worst has lied to the entire nation (again).

 

[peteblue]

The problem is that the arrangement that the government signed up to barely a few months ago (and which a lot of people, who were dismissed as "project fear" said was rubbish), is now something the government agrees is not very good. The EU didn't force anyone to sign anything, and certainly didn't force Johnson to rush through the deal rather than seek an extension, try to prorogue parliament to avoid scrutiny of the deal, and then give parliament barely a day in order to look at it before voting on it. Maybe if the people who you're most definitely not giving a free pass to hadn't done those things in order to force through something they told everyone was wonderful, we wouldn't be in this mess.

As Jacob Rees Knobhead might say, caveat emptor old boy.

So you are saying that there is a mess, well at least that’s a start. Now how would you fix it, any idea’s….

 

[tsubaki]

It's not the EU's job to put things right. It's the UK government that signed up for the deal. It just baffles me that you continue to back someone who has at best proven to be completely incompetent and at worst has lied to the entire nation (again).

it baffles you that pete continues to back someone who is a Tory?

the only way pete would baffle me would be when he admits that Corbyn should have won in 2019

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Contracts and Trade agreements invariably get amended if something is not right. No contract is perfect, ask VDL about ‘best efforts’.

So, can I just ask all of you Remainer/EU Cheerleaders, do you think there are problems with the Protocol and what you would do to fix if there are…….

Ffs Pete. "Remainers" were telling you about these problems until we were blue in the face and you airily waved them all off. Don't bloody well come to us to try and fix the mess that is wholly your making.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Brexit: How the Irish border issue was viewed during campaigning

The Irish border was an issue on the 2016 referendum trail, but was everyone listening to the debate?

www.bbc.co.uk

You may remember this Pete, and the default response from the leave camp was that all would be fine because magical technology would solve all the problems. That technology has thus far failed to materialise.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Fair enough. Then you will understand that almost all of the components to make up a technological solution currently exist in one form or another and many are already utilised at ports and major distributors. In addition there are a host of defence and security related products available for use. What has not been done, as you are well aware, is to fully define what the system requirements would be. While technology exists, the political will to put in place the technical solution has not.
That does not mean that it cannot be done, just that there is no ots system or solution currently available to undertake the demands of NI/ROI nor any agreement between the U.K./EU on what such a system needs to fully address. I raised this 3 years ago and said at the time that the technology exists but that a half billion or so would need to be thrown at the system requirements, design, build, test and install. It’s all doable. The political issue of course has always been that if a free trade deal were completed, then the system would not be required, hence the foot dragging......

We're still waiting it seems.

 

[peteblue]

It's not the EU's job to put things right. It's the UK government that signed up for the deal. It just baffles me that you continue to back someone who has at best proven to be completely incompetent and at worst has lied to the entire nation (again).

I’ll try just one more time. The agreement is between two parties. It isn’t working, therefore both parties need to find a way to make it work. If one party won’t then it’s article 16. just saying ‘we didn’t vote for it’ or ‘it’s nothing to do with the EU’ doesn’t really move anything forward does it. But if you are happy with the application of the agreement upon the people of NI then just bury your head as the EU are trying to do, but it will not go away until it’s addressed…..

 

[peteblue]

Brexit: How the Irish border issue was viewed during campaigning

The Irish border was an issue on the 2016 referendum trail, but was everyone listening to the debate?

www.bbc.co.uk

You may remember this Pete, and the default response from the leave camp was that all would be fine because magical technology would solve all the problems. That technology has thus far failed to materialise.

The EU refused to move forward with a technology solution. The Technology exists, the will to implement does not, purely for political reasons….

 

[peteblue]

We're still waiting it seems.

And it’s still the EU who will not allow it…

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’ll try just one more time. The agreement is between two parties. It isn’t working, therefore both parties need to find a way to make it work. If one party won’t then it’s article 16. just saying ‘we didn’t vote for it’ or ‘it’s nothing to do with the EU’ doesn’t really move anything forward does it. But if you are happy with the application of the agreement upon the people of NI then just bury your head as the EU are trying to do, but it will not go away until it’s addressed…..

When you say "it's not working", you mean it's not working for Northern Ireland. I doubt the EU is too bothered. That's the difference. There is far more desire to change things from the UK than there is from the EU. As you repeatedly said, after Brexit, the UK is solely the business of the UK. We're not the EU's problem any more.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The EU refused to move forward with a technology solution. The Technology exists, the will to implement does not, purely for political reasons….

And it’s still the EU who will not allow it…

And your evidence for these claims? (something that's not the Telegraph would be ideal). Heck, even evidence of the UK government doing a pilot to test out this supposed technology would be great. I'll wait.

 

[peteblue]

And your evidence for these claims? (something that's not the Telegraph would be ideal). Heck, even evidence of the UK government doing a pilot to test out this supposed technology would be great. I'll wait.

If I remember correctly, the EU technical side even put a paper together identifying how it would work, it was never taken up…either way, we are still where we are, a technical solution will take a minimum of 5 years to implement, so at the moment the only way to resolve today’s issues are for both parties to address them…..

 

[peteblue]

When you say "it's not working", you mean it's not working for Northern Ireland. I doubt the EU is too bothered. That's the difference. There is far more desire to change things from the UK than there is from the EU. As you repeatedly said, after Brexit, the UK is solely the business of the UK. We're not the EU's problem any more.

The EU will not be at all bothered, and they haven’t been throughout this process, the border issue has only ever been a stick with which to beat us. We can erase the problem by enacting article 16, legally, as per the agreement. Of course then the EU will take an interest. One sure fire way for them to take an interest is for the U.K. to rip up not only the protocol but the whole agreement, but as Frost has said, it’s not yet the time for this….

 

[Alan Whittle]

Contracts and Trade agreements invariably get amended if something is not right. No contract is perfect, ask VDL about ‘best efforts’.

So, can I just ask all of you Remainer/EU Cheerleaders, do you think there are problems with the Protocol and what you would do to fix if there are…….

Name calling doesn’t help Pete. Of course no contract is “perfect”. Nothing is perfect. Countries enter into these things with that realistic view that they may not get everything that they want, not act like a spoilt child when something that should have been dealt with, wasn’t.
The EU will act in good faith as soon as Boris, Frost et al stop wanting to renegotiate the whole protocol.
Once again, it is only the opinion of one of the parties that “something is not right”.

 

[Alan Whittle]

The EU will not be at all bothered, and they haven’t been throughout this process, the border issue has only ever been a stick with which to beat us.

The “border issue” is a direct consequence of Brexit, something we instigated. No Brexit, no border issue. The Leave campaign and subsequent Tory governments either paid scant attention to the issue or tried to bluff their way out. That is why we are where we are. Continuing to blame the EU is laughable. ( I would have said vindictive and petty but that would have been vindictive and petty).