Current Affairs EU In or Out

[roydo]

What lies did I believe......, I didn’t believe life would be rosy, I kept going on about a short term downturn, I didn’t believe that an emergency budget would arrive though, and I didn’t believe any crap about falling off a cliff edge....

"You" referred to the great swathe of folk who were suckered into this. I have said many times that I share some of your issues with the EU, and I fully respect them. Like you, I am also reasonably cushioned from issues that will crop all. Not all, but most.

Never have I said "cliff edge". Never have I blamed Brexit, pre leaving for stuff that happened.

My issue has been, all along, the utter tripe that "you" swallowed, with "you" not having the faintest idea what would, or could, happen.

The only issue I have with you, is that you cant still see the "real" reasons that this was unleashed on us. I warned you months ago. Just ask yourself, as an intelligent bloke, who, and why, started this.

Then take a peek at the USA late last year.

 

[peteblue]

"You" referred to the great swathe of folk who were suckered into this. I have said many times that I share some of your issues with the EU, and I fully respect them. Like you, I am also reasonably cushioned from issues that will crop all. Not all, but most.

Never have I said "cliff edge". Never have I blamed Brexit, pre leaving for stuff that happened.

My issue has been, all along, the utter tripe that "you" swallowed, with "you" not having the faintest idea what would, or could, happen.

The only issue I have with you, is that you cant still see the "real" reasons that this was unleashed on us. I warned you months ago. Just ask yourself, as an intelligent bloke, who, and why, started this.

Then take a peek at the USA late last year.

This didn’t happen overnight. I believe that the majority of leave voters were becoming more disillusioned with the EU year on year. We had been lied to by successive governments, always denying the route to Superstate, but always taking just one more step towards it. I knew we were finished with the EU when Juncker came to power, it was the equivalent of being ‘managed’ by FIFA. Our trade with the EU was reducing while the RoW were taking a greater % of world GDP. The World was changing and the EU just carried on interfering in minutiae yet adding no real value. I’ve said this for a long long time, but it is the worst sort of protectionist bloc and is no friend of free trade.

But we all like or hate different things. I like voting for a party and hence a PM, I also like being able to vote them out. You cannot do that in the EU. The current ‘President’, VDL, was a failed German defence minister who was shoehorned into the role by the Germans for the Germans. The horlicks she has made of the vaccine fiasco mirrors her performance in the German government, but no one in the EU has a vote to get rid of her. At least the Russians and Chinese pretend to vote their leaders in......

 

[Billy Dean]

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Yet I don’t remember anyone, not the government advocating remain, nor the Remainers, nor even yourself Bruce, ever suggesting that even with an FTA with the EU that some 70+ pages would need to be filled in to sell a fish. You guys really let the side down there, you might even have won the argument. Ah well, we’ve left now so better make the most of it.....

Only the barriers to trade that leaving the CU & SM we’re spoken about endlessly, but were lumped in with everything else that didn’t fit the Brexit narrative under the heading of ‘project fear’.

To suggest that issues of added bureaucracy weren’t raised is pure revisionism. You dismissed all of the points raised on this subject for 4 years. Now here’s you, trying to pretend it was never mentioned.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

"You" referred to the great swathe of folk who were suckered into this. I have said many times that I share some of your issues with the EU, and I fully respect them. Like you, I am also reasonably cushioned from issues that will crop all. Not all, but most.

Never have I said "cliff edge". Never have I blamed Brexit, pre leaving for stuff that happened.

My issue has been, all along, the utter tripe that "you" swallowed, with "you" not having the faintest idea what would, or could, happen.

The only issue I have with you, is that you cant still see the "real" reasons that this was unleashed on us. I warned you months ago. Just ask yourself, as an intelligent bloke, who, and why, started this.

Then take a peek at the USA late last year.

Lol. Has he learnt what a full stop is yet?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

This didn’t happen overnight. I believe that the majority of leave voters were becoming more disillusioned with the EU year on year. We had been lied to by successive governments, always denying the route to Superstate, but always taking just one more step towards it. I knew we were finished with the EU when Juncker came to power, it was the equivalent of being ‘managed’ by FIFA.

This is simply not true. The U.K. populous simply did see EU membership as an important issue until the referendum was mooted and then called.

Brexit: a solution in search of a problem

Until the referendum, Britons were unbothered by European matters

www.economist.com

Then the lies, grooming and gaslighting began.........and it suddenly became the most important issue Bob from Barnsley could think of......

The whole Brexit debacle was a sham from start to finish. Still, tax havens and the opportunity to deregulate and rid ourselves from those pesky workers rights directives and pointless health and safety legislation though.....

As for a ‘European superstate’ that was the real ‘project fear’, if only someone had told the plebiscite about the EU Act 2011.........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This is simply not true. The U.K. populous simply did see EU membership as an important issue until the referendum was mooted and then called.

Brexit: a solution in search of a problem

Until the referendum, Britons were unbothered by European matters

www.economist.com

Then the lies, grooming and gaslighting began.........and it suddenly became the most important issue Bob from Barnsley could think of......

The whole Brexit debacle was a sham from start to finish. Still, tax havens and the opportunity to deregulate and rid ourselves from those pesky workers rights directives and pointless health and safety legislation though.....

As for a ‘European superstate’ that was the real ‘project fear’, if only someone had told the plebiscite about the EU Act 2011.........

As you know, migration is something of an interest, and it always baffled me that people would say migrants put a strain on local services, and they'd never twig that this is a problem with how we deliver local services, not with the migrants themselves. I mean you never heard supermarkets complaining that they weren't able to cope with the "influx" of migrants. They adapted, and that's the real problem, that our local services are so rigid and unable to adapt. As with so much in this whole debate, the real problem lies in Westminster and the way we're governed, but even now you see them trying to pass the buck for their mistakes onto someone else.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

As you know, migration is something of an interest, and it always baffled me that people would say migrants put a strain on local services, and they'd never twig that this is a problem with how we deliver local services, not with the migrants themselves. I mean you never heard supermarkets complaining that they weren't able to cope with the "influx" of migrants. They adapted, and that's the real problem, that our local services are so rigid and unable to adapt. As with so much in this whole debate, the real problem lies in Westminster and the way we're governed, but even now you see them trying to pass the buck for their mistakes onto someone else.

Remember that truly vile Dr’s waiting room advert they created and somehow managed to get aired? The 2 different scenes, one supposedly as it was ‘today’, and the other the post Brexit fantasy. All based completely on eradicating the ‘problem’ not on ensuring the correct level of resource.

If you want to see Schadenfreude in action, have a gander at the twitter feeds of June Mummery and Lance Foreman, both Brexit Party MEP’s from the fish trade. The former realised early doors that reality had arrived, the latter is still on the journey but unravelling by the day, watching their contortions is a sight to behold.

 

[peteblue]

Only the barriers to trade that leaving the CU & SM we’re spoken about endlessly, but were lumped in with everything else that didn’t fit the Brexit narrative under the heading of ‘project fear’.

To suggest that issues of added bureaucracy weren’t raised is pure revisionism. You dismissed all of the points raised on this subject for 4 years. Now here’s you, trying to pretend it was never mentioned.

Perhaps you can show me where in this thread it was mentioned....thanks....

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

[

Perhaps you can show me where in this thread it was mentioned....thanks....

Oh please....

 

[Prevenger17]

Perhaps you can show me where in this thread it was mentioned....thanks....

Are you for real, Pete? Below is from about 2016/2017 and is the tip of the iceberg. I lost a whole swathe of other quotes but this will give an idea

Many of these were directly in response to some wham you spouted and you replied to many of them. So you have seen and read these before. I think you were being deliberately disingenuous in the hope that someone wouldn't just do a keyword search and pull some examples. @Foot Long Hot Dog, to his credit, isn't sad enough to do it, but I am. I find it weird that you would claim that you've never seen such an argument before. Why would you even say it when you absolutely know it's not true?

It took seven years to negotiate Canada’s trade deal with the EU. EPA/Patrick Seeger
In a free trade agreement, this would no longer be the case. Tariffs on exports would likely be eliminated, but exporters would face a multitude of barriers in the form of non-tariff measures. These include rules of origin and requirements for conformity assessments of goods. Such barriers will vastly increase the level of bureaucracy and cost of selling UK goods in the EU.

The report warns that rapid changes and a failure to plan could see the UK facing delays and traffic jams at ports similar to those experienced in July 2015 when French ferry operators went on strike and Operation Stack was implemented to ease major problems.

Rising debt, plummeting tax revenues and funding cuts loom, rendered more difficult by Brexit uncertainties. And here is the National Audit Office, the UK’s spending watchdog, predicting a “horror show” if Britain leaves the EU customs union without its own fit-for-purpose customs system in place.

Clearly you have little understanding of how the customs union works and the benefits of it in terms of trade between members of the union.
I've first hand experience of manfacturing companies that sat outside the customs union and I and my clients experienced the difficulties of having fully laden trucks sitting on borders for days on end whilst other cargoes sailed through.

However almost everyone with experience of international trade recognises that leaving a customs union makes trade more difficult because of the requirement for border checks. As a result the volume of trade falls.

Anybody who has experience of cross border trade will tell you the advantages of the customs union, how it reduces costs, time and encourages trade between members. As in my comment estimated costs of £25bn a year if we leave the customs union something which would require a 37% increase in trade with our top 10 non European partners just to level.

For example, have we got teams of people working on enlarging our customs sites at ports etc, to cope with the massive issue that leaving the customs union will cause? Where's the planning here? How long will it take to enlarge these facilities? We've got until April 2019 have a solution in place apparently...

It's a complete bloody shambles.

Go and read up on how completely unprepared we are for dealing with our exit from the Customs Union and the implications of it should we leave with no deal and take the cliff edge WTO option. The flippancy around this entire issue is frighteningly ignorant

We've done this to death ffs, it's the customs systems, capacity, manufacturer supply chains, logistics and how to process an additional 200m transactions compared to the current 55m. Not to mention financial passporting, open skies etc etc etc ad bleeding infinitum. We need time to sort all of these issues and processes out, and a further 18 months isn't going to be enough.

There are however some things the government could prepare for. They could, for instance, start hiring additional staff for customs checks and investing in a bigger IT system to be able to handle the increased volume of work that would need to take place at the British border. It would need to begin issuing compulsory purchases to build new customs posts at ports, particularly along the 300-mile stretch of the Irish border

The Committee raises concerns that a 4% increase in Border Force staff is too small as they carry out customs checks in many ports. The report warns of the risk of Border Force being diverted from security and immigration checks into customs checks and emphasises that security must not be put at risk by government failure to plan.

The Government should be aiming for transition arrangements which require no change at all in customs and border requirements as everyone is running out of time to make any staffing, infrastructure or procedural changes - and they risk long delays at the border, both in the UK and abroad.

As things stand, the Government is running the risk of celebrating their first day of Brexit with the sight of queues of lorries stretching for miles in Kent and gridlock on the roads of Northern Ireland, which would be incredibly damaging to the UK economy and completely unacceptable to the country. Contingency planning is essential. If the Government gets this all wrong, we could be facing Operation Stack on steroids.

The common market includes legislation though. It isn't the case that our negotiations will be purely on things such as tariffs. There are a whole load of non-tariff barriers to trade that the single market erodes by ensuring that companies operate to common standards.

Dhingra et al (2016a) calculate that in an optimistic scenario in which the UK remains a member of the EEA, it would suffer a 1.3% decline in GDP per head, mostly resulting from the impact of non-tariff trade barriers on trade flows.

Sorry mate, but I don't see how potentially putting up trade barriers (tariffs and customs) between us and our nearest and largest market is a way of 'growing' our economy.

There's a load of old tosh being spouted about the supposedly 'exciting' opportunities presented by Brexit, but I'm yet to hear one tangibly explained. The narrative appears to be that the rest of the Globe has suddenly just been opened up to the UK, which a complete fallacy imo. It also ignores the simple fact that most of our manufacturing business is foreign owned and produces here for the UK and EU markets primarily.
are for. They could, for instance, start hiring additional staff for customs checks and investing in a bigger IT system to be able to handle the increased volume of work that would need to take place at the British border. It would need to begin issuing compulsory purchases to build new customs posts at ports, particularly along the 300-mile stretch of the Irish border

 

[Amw79]

I see the Brexit blame game, has now got to blaming the GoT forum for not spelling out the potential problems well enough.

 

[tsubaki]

I see the Brexit blame game, has now got to blaming the GoT forum for not spelling out the potential problems well enough.

what has the GoT forum ever done for us?

 

[peteblue]

Are you for real, Pete? Below is from about 2016/2017 and is the tip of the iceberg. I lost a whole swathe of other quotes but this will give an idea

Many of these were directly in response to some wham you spouted and you replied to many of them. So you have seen and read these before. I think you were being deliberately disingenuous in the hope that someone wouldn't just do a keyword search and pull some examples. @Foot Long Hot Dog, to his credit, isn't sad enough to do it, but I am. I find it weird that you would claim that you've never seen such an argument before. Why would you even say it when you absolutely know it's not true?

ThaNK you for that, so apart from the comment from Bruce, everyone else just said that there would be border controls etc etc, which we all knew. Now hands up, honestly, how many people knew there would be 70+ pages to send them a fish .....

 

[roydo]

ThaNK you for that, so apart from the comment from Bruce, everyone else just said that there would be border controls etc etc, which we all knew. Now hands up, honestly, how many people knew there would be 70+ pages to send them a fish .....

You are missing the point.

Folk who voted to leave were told all the scare stories were rubbish.

"Easiest trade deal in history" "Regain control of our fish".

I would be absolutely furious, not blaming other people.