Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
Looking forward to standing alongside the white supremacists and those wanting to sell off the NHS?
No one ever mentions Gideon Osborne who will return to polictical life who was the instigator of Austerity...or Sir Vince who sold our post office for peanuts, and the Osbourne's relation made a financial killing - I am joking you know but he got the people a referendum on the EU no doubts about it......
then we voted OUT .... I wonder why he is returning.........
 
Joe, you have complained numerous times on here about apparent bullying, yet consistently throw out remarks like wet, bitch and so on. Perhaps be the change you wish to see in others :)
FGS Bruce its a bit of banter I even insulted myself over saltgate .......
It's amazing how you jump in on Brexiteers yet remainers have their way on this thread - when you were away in the USA - it was groundhog night , all in good banter ........
 
No one ever mentions Gideon Osborne who will return to polictical life who was the instigator of Austerity...or Sir Vince who sold our post office for peanuts, and the Osbourne's relation made a financial killing - I am joking you know but he got the people a referendum on the EU no doubts about it......
then we voted OUT .... I wonder why he is returning.........


Gideon is returning to politics?
 
No one ever mentions Gideon Osborne who will return to polictical life who was the instigator of Austerity...or Sir Vince who sold our post office for peanuts, and the Osbourne's relation made a financial killing - I am joking you know but he got the people a referendum on the EU no doubts about it......
then we voted OUT .... I wonder why he is returning.........
Yes it is strange that nobody mentions Osborne and Austerity in relation to Brexit

Oh wait:
I think it had some part to play in it, as did the promises made by the leave campaigners:

'EU trade easiest in history'
'no downside, only considerable upside'
'Post Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods'

A policy of Austerity and managed decline in regions across the UK and right wing media stoking division and resentment.
Along with you and @edge (it's a bit unclear for me if you voted leave or not) it's really good to get a sensible perspective on Leave.

I don't prescribe to the 'they're all think or racist' spouters as I've seen people who voted remain blindly follow things which are absolutely absurd to try to prove their point.

Personally I voted Remain on the basis that I think it's economically preferably to be in the EU, Even though I don't like many aspects of the EU.

I know that people vote on principle rather than having an in depth knowledge of a particular subject (it's very difficult to be informed enough across all political affairs) but I fail to understand the rationale of people unwilling to budge on issues in a refusal to admit that first time round they might have been misinformed or weren't fully aware of the implications.

Of you know what you voted for fine but I think people voted largely to make laws in this country and because if you have nothing, which I firmly lady at the door of Austerity, the plight of Goldman Sachs or the best stock market doesn't related to you and the gamble to potentially be better off doesn't seem too bad. Unfortunately the people that will be worse hit in this scenario are exactly those people, as in times of hardship the sword will fall hardest on them, the Tories will make sure of that.
So it should. Belief that we are better remaining in the EU should not contradict criticism from some of it's activities and policies.

However, it's also irresponsible for UK politicians to hang those social factors solely around the neck of the EU when a policy of Austerity has led people to the point where they don't consider being poorer or economic uncertainty a threat as they already have absolutely nothing.

I see Brexit as a reaction to the status quo rather than the EU necessarily, which is why I find the narrative about racists and idiots a little uncomfortable when applied to 17.4m people. The same people are still being let down.
This is why I think the entire thing is a nonesense. There's too many permutations to accurately say what the country wanted - other than leave.

I feel sorry for the people that voted leave on the promise of things that cannot be delivered. It was bare faced lying by people that never thought they would win it, so felt no requirement to operate with any degree of responsibility to the country. Then they got what they wanted in terms of Brexit and slowly backed away from the limelight to spend their time shouting at others for not making good on the promises that they had irresponsibility made.

Likewise the remain campaign was championed by Osborne and Cameron telling people to vote for 'stability and the status quo', to people they'd spent years telling they 'needed to take their medicine' in the form of Austerity. If you tell people with nothing to vote for the status quo, why is anyone surprised, they en masse gave a resounding 'no thanks!'


Given that this should rest with the people of the country, I think you go back, eyes open and ask the public what on Earth it is they want.
It's debatable really. I think you could make a legitimate case to say that Austerity coupled with 'populist' agendas and a desire for Libertarianism among Tory ranks, leading to the referendum, was a much greater, and continue s to be a greater threat to UK democracy.

A practice of 'backsliding' as described below, begins the process:

Far-right and Anti Immigration rhetoric on social media and in the press has consistently targeted individual rights (Human Rights Act, Equality Act). Where this becomes popular perception, individual freedoms are at risk. The Brexit process will inevitably have a negative impact on individual rights. UK citizens will lose all rights derived from EU citizenship, including free movement in EU member states. Not just free movement but all rights derived from the EU Charter:

The charter only operates within the scope of EU membership, so won't be relevant in the event of No Deal.

In respect if the referendum itself. By giving so much credibility to a (relativeky speaking) slim majority vote in an advisory referendum (although I accept it is now considered legally bindin), where the campaigns were subject to criticism for the lack of informed debate and uncertain positions, the government is pursuing a mandate that is unclear in its terms, meaning and consequences.

Whatever people like Rees-Mogg and @peteblue might say, people clearly didn't vote for No Deal en masse; they voted for a reaction to the status quo and against the 'status quo' championed by Cameron and Osborne. They voted for anything and everything that was falsely promised by Leave campaingers.

A vote for a speculative and vague position is a vote in support of anything and, therefore nothing at all. The oroblem, as I've alluded to previously in the thread is that Executive action taken under an unclear mandate weakens the authority of Parliament (and the Democracy of the UK). Defaulting to a No Deal is a Political and Democratic failure, as the public by and large cannot easily predict what comes next.

Equally, Leave campaingers knowingly offering the unfeasible (however attractive to the average voter) diminishes the public choice. Voting to implement a form of Brexit that was promised but is ultimately legally unfeasible is meaningless. Likewise, without public consideration of the current options available, knowing that the legal position in a binding vote would've been a voiding of the result, it too diminishes the Democratic process as you cannot practically deliver what was promised.
While UKIP played a part, I don't think he thought he could get a majority in Government so offered the referendum to get Tory core votersand the Eurosceptic elements of his party on side.

I think he thought he could just blame the liberals when they would veto it. But he ended up with a majority. He also took his victory as a belief that he was more popular than he actually was and as such, decided the best narrative to discuss EU membership was to advocate for a status quo and 'more of the same' to people he had spent years ensuring had nothing by enforcing austerity on them.

Someone said he was blameless in this thread not long ago, but he is the root cause of all of this. He never expected to lose the referendum so offered a simple binary vote, with no actual indication of what Leave might mean, then buggered off when it all fell apart.
I would post some quotes from @abelard on Austerity, but there's about 4 pages worth.
 
But I aint racist and how dare you suggest I am.
Unfortunately, I think there is a sizeable group of people that will vote for Farage because they see him as representing their interests and 'defending Britain'. I think they want greater control over immigration to benefit UK nationals, rather than because of racist views.

The issue is that he attracts and plays upon more extreme elements and as such, the former group will be standing arm in arm with people that do want to 'reduce immigration to Zero', who are racists and white supremacists.
 
....just watched the launch of The Brexit Party with a speech from Annuziata Reese-Mogg. All these extremely posh people wanting a hard Brexit is a major concern to me. In recent months the ERG and pressure groups like Guido Fawkes are full of people with fancy names and plums in their mouths.

I’m surprised more isn’t made of it.
Where as warmonger Blair and co Branson etc wanting Brexit to reversed are no any worry?
Blair who aspires top be a leader of the EU.......
 
....just watched the launch of The Brexit Party with a speech from Annuziata Reese-Mogg. All these extremely posh people wanting a hard Brexit is a major concern to me. In recent months the ERG and pressure groups like Guido Fawkes are full of people with fancy names and plums in their mouths.

I’m surprised more isn’t made of it.
They are largely the people who put the majority of content out about it through the media. It's no surprise there isn't much said about it.

Those pesky liberal elites though eh!
 
Unfortunately, I think there is a sizeable group of people that will vote for Farage because they see him as representing their interests and 'defending Britain'. I think they want greater control over immigration to benefit UK nationals, rather than because of racist views.

The issue is that he attracts and plays upon more extreme elements and as such, the former group will be standing arm in arm with people that do want to 'reduce immigration to Zero', who are racists and white supremacists.

Treating people differently because of their nationality is by definition racist though. It's a shame that this even needs explaining in 2019
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top