Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Toffee in Jandals]

I don’t understand what point you’re making here.

I understand what Pete is saying here, Mike. I'm of the point of view that the most responsible thing we (when I say we, I'm referring I guess to my demographic - healthy, and being in early 40's a relatively young age group) can do is help protect the more vulnerable in society. Immuno-compromised, sick, the elderly, the very young. And the best way to help is to get vaccinated, and to take our boosters.

It's an incredibly small thing to do which is going to help stop all these bloody variants and help keep our communities safe. Not only that, but the more vaxxed there are, the more secure governments are going to feel about not reinstating lockdowns and restrictions.

 

[Toffee in Jandals]

History is full of examples of authoritarian tactics that would never otherwise be tolerated being employed during pandemics. Incoming ships were quarantined for forty days in the run up to the last bubonic plague outbreak in England, for all the good it ultimately did.

I honestly don't see why anyone should have an option when it comes to vaccination, unless they're immunocompromised or otherwise medically unable to tolerate it. If you gathered a group of people and went around disrupting a hospital's activities, we'd lock you up for endangering public welfare. The unvaccinated are producing the same result through different means at the moment.

Dead right. I can never understand why people these days seem to associate lockdowns and restrictions with "fascism". The only fascists are the minority virus terrorists protesting mandates and restrictions which just help prolong the misery/lockdowns/restrictions/virus spread for the rest of us.

It honestly just reeks of middle-class privilege to hear all these yoga Mum's complaining about not being able to go to the gym or grab a cafe late with their girlfriends for a gossip session.

 

[dholliday]

a rushly-developed Covid-vaccine, for a new virus which appears to be harmful only for a minority of infected

This is false information that has been repeatedly debunked here and all over the scientific literature.
Discussion is welcomed as are differences of opinion, but I am not going to allow blatantly false information to be promulgated here.

No, it's not false information. It's a fact the vaccine's development was hugely accelerated (1 year) over the norm (5-10 years), to call it "rushed" is a valid take. It was developed based on the original Wuhan strain. Since then we've had Alpha, Delta and now Omicron. The head of Biontech is telling us the current vaccines aren't gonna be particular effective against Omicron, due to the mutations. So of course the vaccine's development was rushed: it was rushed out in the middle of a pandemic, before it even mutated. It's the very definition of "rushed".


It's also a fact the virus is harmful only for a minority of infected, as comfortably more than 50% of infected are asymptomatic or only experience mild symptoms. Any analysis of any country's official data will tell you this. This means the virus is potentially harmful for less than 50% (much less). Less than 50% is...shockingly...known as a "minority". An analysis of the numbers tell us the ratio of EmergencyCare-vs-Cases is around 1% (one percent!). See below's numbers on cases-vs-hospitalisation.

So an extreme minority, even. There is no data you could possibly offer which remotely counters this.


Yet you're judging my post "blatantly false" and won't "allow" it, in the same breath saying "discussion is welcome as are differences of opinion". Kafka says hi.


What about wishing death on those who've chosen not to take the vaccine? Is that allowed?

Voluntarily unvaccinated people should have no place in this society.

Personally I'd be happy if they shuffled off this mortal coil sharpish so we can get on with our lives.

While there‘s no moderating in CA, there are still some rules that can’t be crossed.
This is damn close.

"Damn close", but I guess still allowed. It's just a difference of opinion, ay? The culture you're creating in this thread is one where the dehumanisation of the unvaccinated is more fair game than stating facts which don't support your idea of the pro-vaccine narrative.

It's unhealthy moderating, frankly.


@anyone who feels the unvaccinated are a problem, here's a reminder that the vaccinated constitute a majority of Covid deaths, hospitalisations and cases:




and the very latest figures:








Sure, as a percentage the unvaccinated 18-59's requiring care or dying is higher than the unvaccinated...but not significantly so. Nor as a percentage of total beds available. Certainly nowhere near justifying the extreme views many of yous on here have against unvaccinated folk.

Further analysis of recent Delta/Omicron outbreaks tell us that it's the vaccinated spreading it to each other: multiple sources on this...makes logical sense as the vaccinated have less restrictions so are more socially active, are less required to test themselves and are more numerous. The argument that the unvaccinated are spreading the virus more than the vaxxed has little support when looking at recent real-world data.


We're reaching a genuinely important crossroads in this pandemic, and it's got little to do with 'controlling the virus' or 'ending the pandemic'...it's got to do with how we judge the unvaccinated. Please have a think on this.

 

[dholliday]

Sure, as a percentage the unvaccinated 18-59's requiring care or dying is higher than the unvaccinated...but not significantly so.

To clarify: the vaccinated ratio of ages 18-59 cases-vs-hospitalisations is around 0.5% whereas the unvaccinated ratio is almost 2%...a four-times better protection with the vaccine is pretty significant, sure it is...but does it justify the demonisation? During the last 4 weeks the unvaccinated needed around 3,000 emergency-care hospital beds (not all at the same time)...the NHS has over 100,000 beds in total.

So the unvaccinated have taken up maximum 3% of the beds available...considering the massive amount of attention being paid to the pandemic and especially the unvaxxed, 3% isn't really all that significant. Yet the narrative being spun by the politicians, media and some of yous is that the unvaxxed are endangering the lives of others by taking up valuable bed space.

Demonisation...then dehumanisation...then what? Mandatory jabs? Camps? Refusing care?

We really have to stop for a minute and have a think about where we're going with this.

 

[Martin Alvito]

No, it's not false information. It's a fact the vaccine's development was hugely accelerated (1 year) over the norm (5-10 years), to call it "rushed" is a valid take. It was developed based on the original Wuhan strain. Since then we've had Alpha, Delta and now Omicron. The head of Biontech is telling us the current vaccines aren't gonna be particular effective against Omicron, due to the mutations. So of course the vaccine's development was rushed: it was rushed out in the middle of a pandemic, before it even mutated. It's the very definition of "rushed".


It's also a fact the virus is harmful only for a minority of infected, as comfortably more than 50% of infected are asymptomatic or only experience mild symptoms. Any analysis of any country's official data will tell you this. This means the virus is potentially harmful for less than 50% (much less). Less than 50% is...shockingly...known as a "minority". An analysis of the numbers tell us the ratio of EmergencyCare-vs-Cases is around 1% (one percent!). See below's numbers on cases-vs-hospitalisation.

So an extreme minority, even. There is no data you could possibly offer which remotely counters this.


Yet you're judging my post "blatantly false" and won't "allow" it, in the same breath saying "discussion is welcome as are differences of opinion". Kafka says hi.


What about wishing death on those who've chosen not to take the vaccine? Is that allowed?




"Damn close", but I guess still allowed. It's just a difference of opinion, ay? The culture you're creating in this thread is one where the dehumanisation of the unvaccinated is more fair game than stating facts which don't support your idea of the pro-vaccine narrative.

It's unhealthy moderating, frankly.


@anyone who feels the unvaccinated are a problem, here's a reminder that the vaccinated constitute a majority of Covid deaths, hospitalisations and cases:

View attachment 149066


and the very latest figures:

View attachment 149070

View attachment 149069

View attachment 149068


Sure, as a percentage the unvaccinated 18-59's requiring care or dying is higher than the unvaccinated...but not significantly so. Nor as a percentage of total beds available. Certainly nowhere near justifying the extreme views many of yous on here have against unvaccinated folk.

Further analysis of recent Delta/Omicron outbreaks tell us that it's the vaccinated spreading it to each other: multiple sources on this...makes logical sense as the vaccinated have less restrictions so are more socially active, are less required to test themselves and are more numerous. The argument that the unvaccinated are spreading the virus more than the vaxxed has little support when looking at recent real-world data.


We're reaching a genuinely important crossroads in this pandemic, and it's got little to do with 'controlling the virus' or 'ending the pandemic'...it's got to do with how we judge the unvaccinated. Please have a think on this.

So, a quick look at your table suggests that among unvaccinated adults (ignoring kids since obviously you were hardly vaccinating them), a third of those aged 80+ who contracted the virus were hospitalized and nearly all of those died. Lethality and significant enough adverse effects to warrant hospitalization are vastly higher as a percentage for the unvaccinated throughout that proportion of the population that is 18+. The unvaccinated have 1/6 of the cases and 40% of the hospitalizations in the adult population. Translation: the unvaccinated are taxing the health service and increasing the likelihood that health care workers contract the virus, which also taxes the health care system.

What proportion of drink drivers kill or injure somebody when they do it? It's pretty low, right? Most people that get picked up for it, or crash a car, have done it many, many times previously. We don't let you do it anyway, because we know the risk of you crashing a car is considerably higher when you're drunk.

At least here in the US, we demonize drunk drivers, lock them up and take away their licenses to drive. You're defending a similar position. I don't see why you expect a different outcome.

 

[JLW]

If vaccines were as effective as they say they are we wouldn't be in this position today?

If the vaccines are effective then the numbers are wrong?

If we are blaming the unvaccinated people then we have already used the 6 million unvaccinated quota as 5 million cases have been recorded since July 2021?

If the vaccines work but not against the new variant then we have double jabbed people essentially not vaccinated?

If the booster combats the new variant then how does it when the booster was available before the new variant came about?

If there will always be new variants of this then we will never achieve fully vaccinated status?

If you need a Covid passport to go to events/pubs/restaurants without proving you're negative then you're allowing the spread of the virus

If you have a Covid passport and go the match or a concert but don't take a LF or PCR to prove you're negative then you are as selfish as unvaccinated person

If you think that achieving 100% vaccinated status will get us out of this mess then you are deluded

If every person is vaccinated we will still get 5,000-20,000 cases per day so we will always be stuck in this cycle of fear.

Too many questions and not enough answers.

 

[verreauxi]

I am not a threat to anyone as long as I’m taking regular negative covid tests and isolating if they come back positive. You however, with your vaccine passport dated 3 months ago who probably never bothers to get tested, could be carrying the virus anywhere and everywhere you go. Obviously you’ll ignore this and continue to spout fascist views though.

Are you saying that every time you go out you get a Covid test? Really? Every time? Why not just get the vaccine?…much more cheaper and saves you the trouble of the nasal swabs.

 

[Death]

I tested positive for the super dooper gina virus.

Merry x mas

 

[joe1878]

I tested positive for the super dooper gina virus.

Merry x mas

I blame @MikeH72

 

[COYBL25]

I tested positive for the super dooper gina virus.

Merry x mas

Did you catch it off Benitez ?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Are you saying that every time you go out you get a Covid test? Really? Every time? Why not just get the vaccine?…much more cheaper and saves you the trouble of the nasal swabs.

Been asked to do LFT everyday now in Wales if you are front line staff vaccinated or not.

Trouble is this is first generation of this vaccine for COVID as everything new it needs revising. They will become better. Distrust is a consequence of business to close to governments and in this case pharmaceuticals, too much of the PR selling patter has seeped through into public messaging

And variants occur when the virus mutates and there is a risk of that happening every single time the virus copies itself.
The fact that many scientists think alpha and omicron may well have evolved in someone with an immune system deficiency and it gets even more murky.

Bat poop crazy allowing this virus and variants to be exported in and spread about the country like the UK, where people with serious health conditions and associated immune system deficiency have/had good outcomes.

 

[Prevenger17]

I tested positive for the super dooper gina virus.

Merry x mas

Hope you're alright Jay, and welcome back xx

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It’s not an easy cop out. We have customers that we haven’t seen for nearly two years. I don’t give a crap about the loss of trade, but I do get upset because decent people are frightened to come out. Many of these do not have many years left and their quality of life is ruined by these selfish unvaccinated people…..

What kind of practices do you have in your place Pete? It's a bugbear of the wife's when she sees staff in restaurants, cafes, pubs etc. being pretty slack with things like hand hygiene. She argues that washing hands between each customer would be good practice, but hardly anywhere we've been seems to do that, with many not even requiring staff to wear masks.

 

[Brennan]

No, it's not false information. It's a fact the vaccine's development was hugely accelerated (1 year) over the norm (5-10 years), to call it "rushed" is a valid take. It was developed based on the original Wuhan strain. Since then we've had Alpha, Delta and now Omicron. The head of Biontech is telling us the current vaccines aren't gonna be particular effective against Omicron, due to the mutations. So of course the vaccine's development was rushed: it was rushed out in the middle of a pandemic, before it even mutated. It's the very definition of "rushed".


It's also a fact the virus is harmful only for a minority of infected, as comfortably more than 50% of infected are asymptomatic or only experience mild symptoms. Any analysis of any country's official data will tell you this. This means the virus is potentially harmful for less than 50% (much less). Less than 50% is...shockingly...known as a "minority". An analysis of the numbers tell us the ratio of EmergencyCare-vs-Cases is around 1% (one percent!). See below's numbers on cases-vs-hospitalisation.

So an extreme minority, even. There is no data you could possibly offer which remotely counters this.


Yet you're judging my post "blatantly false" and won't "allow" it, in the same breath saying "discussion is welcome as are differences of opinion". Kafka says hi.


What about wishing death on those who've chosen not to take the vaccine? Is that allowed?




"Damn close", but I guess still allowed. It's just a difference of opinion, ay? The culture you're creating in this thread is one where the dehumanisation of the unvaccinated is more fair game than stating facts which don't support your idea of the pro-vaccine narrative.

It's unhealthy moderating, frankly.


@anyone who feels the unvaccinated are a problem, here's a reminder that the vaccinated constitute a majority of Covid deaths, hospitalisations and cases:

View attachment 149066


and the very latest figures:

View attachment 149070

View attachment 149069

View attachment 149068


Sure, as a percentage the unvaccinated 18-59's requiring care or dying is higher than the unvaccinated...but not significantly so. Nor as a percentage of total beds available. Certainly nowhere near justifying the extreme views many of yous on here have against unvaccinated folk.

Further analysis of recent Delta/Omicron outbreaks tell us that it's the vaccinated spreading it to each other: multiple sources on this...makes logical sense as the vaccinated have less restrictions so are more socially active, are less required to test themselves and are more numerous. The argument that the unvaccinated are spreading the virus more than the vaxxed has little support when looking at recent real-world data.


We're reaching a genuinely important crossroads in this pandemic, and it's got little to do with 'controlling the virus' or 'ending the pandemic'...it's got to do with how we judge the unvaccinated. Please have a think on this.

718 deaths from unvaccinated vs 2259 for vaccinated, while unvaccinated people make up less than 5 million of the total population.

Serious illness even more damning, with these people causing 3532 emergency admissions vs 4256 for two doses.

How is that not “significant”

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I tested positive for the super dooper gina virus.

Merry x mas

Speedy recovery, mate, and hopefully symptom free. x