Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

No, it's not false information. It's a fact the vaccine's development was hugely accelerated (1 year) over the norm (5-10 years), to call it "rushed" is a valid take. It was developed based on the original Wuhan strain. Since then we've had Alpha, Delta and now Omicron. The head of Biontech is telling us the current vaccines aren't gonna be particular effective against Omicron, due to the mutations. So of course the vaccine's development was rushed: it was rushed out in the middle of a pandemic, before it even mutated. It's the very definition of "rushed".


It's also a fact the virus is harmful only for a minority of infected, as comfortably more than 50% of infected are asymptomatic or only experience mild symptoms. Any analysis of any country's official data will tell you this. This means the virus is potentially harmful for less than 50% (much less). Less than 50% is...shockingly...known as a "minority". An analysis of the numbers tell us the ratio of EmergencyCare-vs-Cases is around 1% (one percent!). See below's numbers on cases-vs-hospitalisation.

So an extreme minority, even. There is no data you could possibly offer which remotely counters this.


Yet you're judging my post "blatantly false" and won't "allow" it, in the same breath saying "discussion is welcome as are differences of opinion". Kafka says hi.


What about wishing death on those who've chosen not to take the vaccine? Is that allowed?




"Damn close", but I guess still allowed. It's just a difference of opinion, ay? The culture you're creating in this thread is one where the dehumanisation of the unvaccinated is more fair game than stating facts which don't support your idea of the pro-vaccine narrative.

It's unhealthy moderating, frankly.


@anyone who feels the unvaccinated are a problem, here's a reminder that the vaccinated constitute a majority of Covid deaths, hospitalisations and cases:

View attachment 149066


and the very latest figures:

View attachment 149070

View attachment 149069

View attachment 149068


Sure, as a percentage the unvaccinated 18-59's requiring care or dying is higher than the unvaccinated...but not significantly so. Nor as a percentage of total beds available. Certainly nowhere near justifying the extreme views many of yous on here have against unvaccinated folk.

Further analysis of recent Delta/Omicron outbreaks tell us that it's the vaccinated spreading it to each other: multiple sources on this...makes logical sense as the vaccinated have less restrictions so are more socially active, are less required to test themselves and are more numerous. The argument that the unvaccinated are spreading the virus more than the vaxxed has little support when looking at recent real-world data.


We're reaching a genuinely important crossroads in this pandemic, and it's got little to do with 'controlling the virus' or 'ending the pandemic'...it's got to do with how we judge the unvaccinated. Please have a think on this.

Just to pick one thing there in your post, you can't use those vaccinated deaths as some way to prove a point of the vaccine not working. 100,000s - millions - more people are vaccinated than unvaccinated, so of course there will still probably be more deaths in vaccinated than unvaccinated (as there are simply more people in that category).

I think everyone should get the vaccine that is eligible and I have no idea why it is such a big issue for people. It's a very easy thing to do and is first and foremost about giving yourself an extra layer of protection against this thing which may or may not be nasty if you have it. I had it and it was nasty, and I was one jab in at the time. Maybe it would have been fine if I'd not had a jab but I'm glad I was at least partially protected when I did get sick.

But I am of the opinion that unvaccinated people shouldn't be dehumanised or blamed fully for the latest restrictions etc. I do think it's a problem and I just don't understand why people have such an afront to getting it, though.

 

[bluelife]

718 deaths from unvaccinated vs 2259 for vaccinated, while unvaccinated people make up less than 5 million of the total population.

Serious illness even more damning, with these people causing 3532 emergency admissions vs 4256 for two doses.

How is that not “significant”

Would be classed as scientifically significant if there was a ~3% gap with those sample sizes. Instead the gaps are more like 300-500%. He’s used figures that oppose his point to make his point…

 

[grandjoeblue]

Just to pick one thing there in your post, you can't use those vaccinated deaths as some way to prove a point of the vaccine not working. 100,000s - millions - more people are vaccinated than unvaccinated, so of course there will still probably be more deaths in vaccinated than unvaccinated (as there are simply more people in that category).

I think everyone should get the vaccine that is eligible and I have no idea why it is such a big issue for people. It's a very easy thing to do and is first and foremost about giving yourself an extra layer of protection against this thing which may or may not be nasty if you have it. I had it and it was nasty, and I was one jab in at the time. Maybe it would have been fine if I'd not had a jab but I'm glad I was at least partially protected when I did get sick.

But I am of the opinion that unvaccinated people shouldn't be dehumanised or blamed fully for the latest restrictions etc. I do think it's a problem and I just don't understand why people have such an afront to getting it, though.

Facebook science is the main reason why people are not vaccinated.

There isn't really a legitimate reason for not getting vaccinated, some pregnant women and women planning to get pregnant had doubts at first but it's been proven that it's fine for them.

 

[mill]

718 deaths from unvaccinated vs 2259 for vaccinated, while unvaccinated people make up less than 5 million of the total population.

Serious illness even more damning, with these people causing 3532 emergency admissions vs 4256 for two doses.

How is that not “significant”

Plus he’s quoting trump to explain the time difference for developing vaccines. When generally it takes 5-10 years due to bureaucracy and funding rather than actual development. In this case there was near unlimited funding and will across the globe to develop a vaccine.

He’s taking a political point made by a narcissist trying to make themselves look good as evidence that the vaccines are dodgy. When millions of people have had multiple jabs, there is clear evidence that they are effective against a number of variants and limited number of side effects, particularly long term and especially relative to the side effects of the virus.

But people have decided what side of this they are on now and no amount of evidence or logic will change their minds.

 

[summerisle]

Anybody live in Las Vegas ? lol

 

[Prevenger17]

But I am of the opinion that unvaccinated people shouldn't be dehumanised or blamed fully for the latest restrictions etc. I do think it's a problem and I just don't understand why people have such an afront to getting it, though.

I agree with this. I have a couple of people on my caseload in work who haven't got the vaccine for various reasons. Most are not "anti-vaxxers"

 

[mill]

Anybody live in Las Vegas ? lol

This reminds me of a great idea I had for a strip club marketing campaign.

‘Masks on, clothes off’

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I am now boosted

Arm's killing but no other side effects to report as of yet

 

[BlueToff]

I agree with this. I have a couple of people on my caseload in work who haven't got the vaccine for various reasons. Most are not "anti-vaxxers"

yeah, and especially since one of the things we know about Omicron is that it evades the vaccine pretty well to infect people, then I struggle to equate anti-vaxxers and/or people who haven't had the vaccine yet as being the main issue really.

 

[WA Toffee]

No, it's not false information. It's a fact the vaccine's development was hugely accelerated (1 year) over the norm (5-10 years), to call it "rushed" is a valid take. It was developed based on the original Wuhan strain. Since then we've had Alpha, Delta and now Omicron. The head of Biontech is telling us the current vaccines aren't gonna be particular effective against Omicron, due to the mutations. So of course the vaccine's development was rushed: it was rushed out in the middle of a pandemic, before it even mutated. It's the very definition of "rushed".


It's also a fact the virus is harmful only for a minority of infected, as comfortably more than 50% of infected are asymptomatic or only experience mild symptoms. Any analysis of any country's official data will tell you this. This means the virus is potentially harmful for less than 50% (much less). Less than 50% is...shockingly...known as a "minority". An analysis of the numbers tell us the ratio of EmergencyCare-vs-Cases is around 1% (one percent!). See below's numbers on cases-vs-hospitalisation.

So an extreme minority, even. There is no data you could possibly offer which remotely counters this.


Yet you're judging my post "blatantly false" and won't "allow" it, in the same breath saying "discussion is welcome as are differences of opinion". Kafka says hi.


What about wishing death on those who've chosen not to take the vaccine? Is that allowed?




"Damn close", but I guess still allowed. It's just a difference of opinion, ay? The culture you're creating in this thread is one where the dehumanisation of the unvaccinated is more fair game than stating facts which don't support your idea of the pro-vaccine narrative.

It's unhealthy moderating, frankly.


@anyone who feels the unvaccinated are a problem, here's a reminder that the vaccinated constitute a majority of Covid deaths, hospitalisations and cases:

View attachment 149066


and the very latest figures:

View attachment 149070

View attachment 149069

View attachment 149068


Sure, as a percentage the unvaccinated 18-59's requiring care or dying is higher than the unvaccinated...but not significantly so. Nor as a percentage of total beds available. Certainly nowhere near justifying the extreme views many of yous on here have against unvaccinated folk.

Further analysis of recent Delta/Omicron outbreaks tell us that it's the vaccinated spreading it to each other: multiple sources on this...makes logical sense as the vaccinated have less restrictions so are more socially active, are less required to test themselves and are more numerous. The argument that the unvaccinated are spreading the virus more than the vaxxed has little support when looking at recent real-world data.


We're reaching a genuinely important crossroads in this pandemic, and it's got little to do with 'controlling the virus' or 'ending the pandemic'...it's got to do with how we judge the unvaccinated. Please have a think on this.

Your first paragraph there. The development wasn't rushed - the beaurocracy behind it was rushed. The actual science of developing it was the same as it ever was.

You are correct that the original vaccine was developed for the alpha variant. Probably because that was the only variant present at the time. You can't develop a vaccine for something that doesn't exist yet.

I'm sure the rest of your post was really worthwhile and full of valid statements, but I didn't get that far.

 

[Prevenger17]

yeah, and especially since one of the things we know about Omicron is that it evades the vaccine pretty well to infect people, then I struggle to equate anti-vaxxers and/or people who haven't had the vaccine yet as being the main issue really.

Tbf, I think hospital numbers show that the strain would be greatly reduced on the health system if everyone was vaccinated. But it's unrealistic to expect that and the best we can do is encourage as many people as we can. I have absolutely no regard for the placard-toting mentallers who think vaccines are a conspiracy and want to go back to normal restriction-free existence too. I am happy to describe that particular section of the unvaccinated as ignorant and unreasonable d**kheads

 

[grandjoeblue]

With today being a Tuesday I can see there being a lot more cases, maybe 140,000. I think we might see an announcement tomorrow of a 28th lockdown.

 

[BlueToff]

Tbf, I think hospital numbers show that the strain would be greatly reduced on the health system if everyone was vaccinated. But it's unrealistic to expect that and the best we can do is encourage as many people as we can. I have absolutely no regard for the placard-toting mentallers who think vaccines are a conspiracy and want to go back to normal restriction-free existence too. I am happy to describe that particular section of the unvaccinated as ignorant and unreasonable d**kheads

Yeah same. Like I said I think it's part of the wider issue, don't think it's the whole issue

 

[BlueToff]

With today being a Tuesday I can see there being a lot more cases, maybe 140,000. I think we might see an announcement tomorrow of a 28th lockdown.

Hospitalisations should be all that matter

 

[TN Toffee]

With today being a Tuesday I can see there being a lot more cases, maybe 140,000. I think we might see an announcement tomorrow of a 28th lockdown.

Either the 27th or 28th is always when I expected they would implement it.

I know the rest of Europe seems to be going the lockdown route, but I’m still kind of surprised the UK government is probably going to go that route. Other countries are running a few days/weeks ahead with their Omicron surges and to this point there don’t seem to be any real world examples of healthcare systems being overwhelmed. Deciding to shut the entire country back down for several months based off of worst case scenario projections still feels like an overreaction at this point.