Current Affairs Ukraine

[Kev The Rat]

A war declaraton on Russa
Apperently the jets aren't going to be sent either https://www.newsweek.com/eu-ukraine...sia-advances-slovakia-poland-bulgaria-1683588

a lot of fake news going around

the idea that nations are going to be engaging in 'gun-running' accross Europe to get military hardware to unknown Ukrainian combatants is just a bit fanciful for me.

File this talk of weapons provision under elite Chechen troops fighting for Putin, and every Ukrainian male under 60 ready to die for the cause.

 

[efcfanwirral]

Putin has now destroyed Russia, whether he knows it yet or not. The world is forever changed and the universal international stand against him and this kind of action is a new thing for our planet, in a new age where social media, globalization, 6 degrees of connection mean average joes thousands of miles away care and have a say. Much of what has happened has been lead by governments, but actually forced by citizens who have made it clear if the politicians dont stand up they will be gone in their own countries. Companies now are so big they can impact wars and bring countries to their knees through cutting off of services. Non-military groups such as Anonymous now wield so much power through their anonymity and talents in a digital age they can heavily impact wars and countries at times like this. Putin was so lost in his Soviet mindset he didnt know the world has changed.

That argument could be extended to - what happens if the economic sanctions ("it's only money we need to DO something") are not enough for those same populations? I can see a growing undercurrent that we can't "just stand by and let this happen", along with terrifying propaganda about the "brave UK citizens volunteering to fight" (inferring- if you don't you're a coward). If the Nato countries' populations are unanimous about it and put enough pressure on, could they bounce the countries into a military response?

Boris might be saying "we won't fight Russia in Ukraine" very clearly now, but he's also saying without any doubt that "Putin's ambitions will extend further, none of us are safe", which encourages the above - people will feel threatened as far away as in this country now.

 

[stipe]

That argument could be extended to - what happens if the economic sanctions ("it's only money we need to DO something") are not enough for those same populations? I can see a growing undercurrent that we can't "just stand by and let this happen", along with terrifying propaganda about the "brave UK citizens volunteering to fight" (inferring- if you don't you're a coward). If the Nato countries' populations are unanimous about it and put enough pressure on, could they bounce the countries into a military response?

Boris might be saying "we won't fight Russia in Ukraine" very clearly now, but he's also saying without any doubt that "Putin's ambitions will extend further, none of us are safe", which encourages the above - people will feel threatened as far away as in this country now.

I don't think that gonna happen, i seen posts like this (demanding no fly zone) on reddit and twitter, but usually get downvoted to oblivion. I think most people understand what would WW3 meant.

People demanding stuff like this mostly seems like 12 years old kids who played too much Call of Duty.

 

[summerisle]

It will end up being a forgotten war like Donbas

I can see it now.

And back to getting his oil and gas within a year.

I doubt this will be forgotten.

 

[Tree13]

one of the reasons that Russia hasnt bothered with sending large numbers of planes up is because they know that they dont need to establish control, because Ukraine cant control it themselves, and NATO wont get involved.

The reason the primary targets on day one were all airbases and air defence infrastructure was precisely to allow Russian air superiority. The idea is to either destroy the Ukrainian air force on the ground or to deny the Ukrainian pilots anywhere to land, refuel and rearm IF they made it off the ground in the first place. It's pretty standard stuff you can read in any book on modern conventional military strategy.

Russia failed to catch the Ukrainian planes on the ground, and failed to seize or destroy any substantial air bases or air defence sites. They definitely made an impact, but the Ukrainian air force is still in operation and that is part of the why the Russians are losing armour and helicopters - their air force isn't dominating the sky.

There's a decent article on this exact subject - "The mystery of the missing Russian air force" I think it's called. Will dig it out and post a link now.

Edit: link here:

The Mysterious Case of the Missing Russian Air Force

On the fifth day of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, one of many unanswered questions is why Russia has launched a military campaign at huge cost with maximalist objectives, and then declined to use the vast majority of its fixed wing combat aircraft.

rusi.org

 

[LEONARD]

Looking forward to fruitcake leftist's on Church Street, asking me to sign a petition to boycott Russia.

 

[stipe]

I doubt this will be forgotten.

I'm surprised they didn't target TV tower 1st day, usually communication and bridges are among first targets in any military operation.
Maybe they expected quick blitz and now they changing tactics to more conventional, bombing, air and artillery strikes and only then armor/infantry move in.

 

[Tree13]

Yeah, my immediate response to that demand by Zelenskyy was, "You're not getting that!" To paraphrase Biden, when American planes start shooting down Russian planes, that's WWIII. Putin knows that, so he would ignore the no-fly zone and dare the Americans to take the shot. Knowing that, Biden never gives the order to impose a no-fly zone in the first place.

The same process of logic, however, also raises the uncomfortable question of what is ACTUALLY stopping Putin attacking a NATO country?

 

[Tree13]

Additionally the Russians haven’t been sending many planes up - maybe because they don’t need to because the Ukraine air presence isn’t really there, or just maybe they don’t want to provoke talk of a no fly zone

Actually:

The Mysterious Case of the Missing Russian Air Force

On the fifth day of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, one of many unanswered questions is why Russia has launched a military campaign at huge cost with maximalist objectives, and then declined to use the vast majority of its fixed wing combat aircraft.

rusi.org

 

[Kev The Rat]

I'm surprised they didn't target TV tower 1st day, usually communication and bridges are among first targets in any military operation.
Maybe they expected quick blitz and now they changing tactics to more conventional, bombing, air and artillery strikes and only then armor/infantry move in.

The so called ‘invasion convoy’ apparently has many logistical vehicles which indicates they're going to be setting up camp.

My thinking is maybe they’re looking at a more straightforward command and control / policing structure than you would get in a typical invasion?

 

[Tree13]

4

Hahahaha hahahahahaha

"Accept completely what I have to say. There is no other truth. Disagree and I will put you on ignore."

Quite the Putin fanboi.

 

[efcfanwirral]

The same process of logic, however, also raises the uncomfortable question of what is ACTUALLY stopping Putin attacking a NATO country?

Article 5 - we don't have to get involved by default in Ukraine.

I've seen a lot of people (I don't mean you) saying that our "weakness" means he'll definitely attack loads of other countries. Surely the point of the treaty is that is unlikely?

 

[Tree13]

The so called invasion convoy has many logistical vehicles which indicates they're going to be setting up camp

"So called"?

It's a convoy of Russian military vehicles on Ukrainian territory heading towards Kyiv during a time of open warfare between Russia and Ukraine.

 

[Tree13]

Article 5 - we don't have to get involved by default in Ukraine.

I've seen a lot of people (I don't mean you) saying that our "weakness" means he'll definitely attack loads of other countries. Surely the point of the treaty is that is unlikely?

If THAT logic holds true, then the moment NATO assets are deployed in Ukraine he will withdraw.

Only one of these logics can be true. Problem is we don't know which one.

 

[Tree13]

How are Russia going to pay for the army to be in Ukraine for 5 months?

Credit card. Kev's sorting it out as we speak / already sorted it / it was never a problem / army, what army?