The Moyes influence on Everton.

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You could see by the actions of Moyes re: Barkley...that new players with a bit of talent were not allowed to make a mistake or they were dropped....this created players playing with fear therefore not allowing themselves to be able to express themselves. This is openly encouraged by Martinez therefore the player does not have a fear factor to contend with. I still believe Stones would not have been a regular for us under Moyes.

What I cannot understand is the persistent mistake makers in Osman, Hibbert, Neville being granted such leeway. Moyes certainly had his faults with man management....hit some with a tonne of bricks and turned a blind eye to others. Could not have been seen as fair for players behind the scenes.

So when did he drop Arteta Pienaar Baines? Or where they not players with a bit of talent? Have you ever considered that your 'persistent mistake makers' didn't actually make that many mistakes hence why Martinez still had two of them on the books and they all have had well over a decade playing in the premier league? Sounds like consistency to me.

Fear factor dispelled by Martinez? What was last season then? Some of the most nervy fearful football I've seen from an Everton side. Stones has become a regular under Martinez, at first he spent half the season on the bench watching Distin, it was only when Jags was injured he was called upon. He then went straight out the team when Jags returned. At the start of last season he was playing at RB with Maryinez opting for Distin and Jagielka. It was an injury to Distin that put him back into the middle then to Martinez's credit he kept him in as Distin burnt his bridges. Inexplicably he left Stones out of the Kiev game though. It's an assumption to say Moyes would not have played Stones. It's also incorrect the people who say Martinez trusted him from the beginning. He obviously didn't consider him first choice. Had we been injury free in 13/14 Stones wouldn't have played in the league.
 
Beckford was never given a proper chance for whatever reason. Even when he scored he would be sub next game. I wouldn't consider him a flop.
 
I think he was a good manager for us for most of his tenure, he came in and stabilised the club and grew us to a point. We avoided relegation and became a solid upper midtable side. However when it came to progress the club again to one which competed regularly for Europe he wasn't able to do so, held back by his negative mindsets which became a hinderance where they had once been a help. He recruited smartly and made many savvy buys. Indeed I think he set some good foundations for Martinez to come in and work from.
However he was here a few years too long and didn't win anything with us despite several good opportunities so that must be considered too.
 
But that toxic attitude fostered a real team spirit and a dressing room that all pulled together. We did overachieve in his tenure here and Martinez has directly benefitted from it. There are things Martinez does better but he's very much fleshing the bones of Moyes work.
I don't think the team spirit would've suffered if he'd dispensed with the 'plucky little Everton' attitude.

Imagine that team spirit and thinking big.
 
Moyes steadied the ship and did take us to a position were we should have kicked on and won something. We didn't, I think due to his own limitations as a manager. The semi final against, possibly the worse LFC team I had seen, was the last straw for me. I thanked him and wished him well. But was glad the Manu job did come up and he left. I wanted a radical change to the way we played with more pass and move and less long balls down the middle. Yes, at times we did play some decent football with the Yak, Arteta, Baines, Cahill, Pienaar, Donovan but it was all too fleeting.
 
I don't think the team spirit would've suffered if he'd dispensed with the 'plucky little Everton' attitude.

Imagine that team spirit and thinking big.
But the players he bought were mainly cast offs and the style of football wasn't one you'd readily associate with a top team so I guess it suited to talk us down and play us up as underdogs. Didn't do his own reputation any harm either I guess
 
Ha ha complete revisionism. Yeah I remember Lescott just belting it long all the time and Ciry thinking 'we'll pay 26 mill for that', I also remember Baines just absolutely leathering long diagonals to all those massive forwards we had like McFadden Yakubu Osman so much so that everyone raved about Pienaar and Baines' chemistry and started calling him the best LB in the league. Pure football dinosaurs the lot of them. Felt sorry for Arteta Pienaar Fellaini Cahill, they all must have had rubbish careers here never seeing the ball because we just launched it over their heads at the first opportunity. Awful football, amazing that we made the top 5/6 quite s few times playing that sort of Sunday league stuff.

What on earth are you talking about mate?

So Lescott was a ball-playing CB? No, he was a threat in the oppositions box, he was a good age and defended brilliantly. Mark Hughes was only manager. All that +10million "English Premium" = £26million. If you think Lescott was actually worth the same sort of money as Rio Ferdinand (30mil) then fair play to you, I think otherwise.

Under Moyes we were never in charge of a game. Sure we'd get good results against some big teams, but generally speaking it was about not losing first. And that meant Yobo, Stubbs, Weir, Jagielka, Lescott launching the ball to a target man and then from their we built attacks. Get the ball to Pienaar. Jink inside. Leave space on the left. Pienaar to Baines. Baines cross.

Sure, we played some nice stuff at times - built on that one single tactic. It was pretty obvious to all that even in those later years when the football improved, if you shut down Baines you shut down Everton. Evidence? Martinez's Wigan, FA Cup. He stuck Ryo Myiachi on Baines. Myiachi barely touched the ball, but he made the pass to Baines difficult after the Fellaini knock-down. What score did that finish mate? We were completely out-foxed that day because Moyes was out-foxed.

Tim Cahill? Playmaker? Or did he brilliantly get on the end of (Baines' crosses)?

Tim Cahill:
TIM CAHILL has described Leighton Baines as “priceless” after the Everton full-back delivered his NINTH assist of the season at Wigan on Saturday.
Baines’ corner was superbly headed in by Cahill to extend Everton’s unbeaten run to nine Premier League matches – including a third successive victory – and the little Australian admitted he thrives on Baines’ expertise from open play and set pieces.
“Leighton is first class,” he said.
“His assists this year have been unbelievable.
“For me, players like that are priceless and I thrive on his quality.
"I’m very lucky to have someone like that in the team.
“I practice in training with a lot of the lads but whenever there’s a free-kick, I do appreciate it when Leighton is on them.”
Baines is way out in front at the top of Everton’s goal assists chart, with more expected contributors like Diniyar Bilyaletdinov (seven) and Yakubu, Louis Saha and Johnny Heitinga (all five) trailing the defender.

No-one is doubting that Arteta and Pienaar were good buys or good players, but at various times we were completely reliant on a player or 2 to provide an attacking threat. Moyes was a 'don't lose' kind of fella rather than a 'take the game to the opposition' kind.

I liked Moyes, I think he was brilliant for us and exactly what we needed. I also think however that what we saw of him was the very peak of what he could offer us. Martinez's exciting Everton team of his first season should be the aim on a consistent basis, and it's a far superior team to anything Moyes produced in 11 years at the club.
 
I was a Moyes man when he was here. Not arsed anymore - he's history.

Some of you need to get on with backing the gaffer we now have.

Allez allez allez oh....
 
God he was brilliant for us when he took over, not only that his ability to spot a player and turn it over for profit kept us financially viable - (prob still soes) for any years. Always grateful.

On reflection we were always "almost" missing out by whisker on trophies and CL qualification - you have to query the ambition - or rather his nature to be conservitive in many aspects of his management.

On the whole he was brilliant for him and if and i mean if, our ambition outgrew his own it was only because he got us to that place.
 
So when did he drop Arteta Pienaar Baines? Or where they not players with a bit of talent? Have you ever considered that your 'persistent mistake makers' didn't actually make that many mistakes hence why Martinez still had two of them on the books and they all have had well over a decade playing in the premier league? Sounds like consistency to me.

Fear factor dispelled by Martinez? What was last season then? Some of the most nervy fearful football I've seen from an Everton side. Stones has become a regular under Martinez, at first he spent half the season on the bench watching Distin, it was only when Jags was injured he was called upon. He then went straight out the team when Jags returned. At the start of last season he was playing at RB with Maryinez opting for Distin and Jagielka. It was an injury to Distin that put him back into the middle then to Martinez's credit he kept him in as Distin burnt his bridges. Inexplicably he left Stones out of the Kiev game though. It's an assumption to say Moyes would not have played Stones. It's also incorrect the people who say Martinez trusted him from the beginning. He obviously didn't consider him first choice. Had we been injury free in 13/14 Stones wouldn't have played in the league.

How long did it take Baines to become a regular. There was even paper talk of him leaving after his first season. Pienaar and Arteta were loanies that enhanced the team with very few mistakes therefore he signed them. Martinez has moved on from Osman and Hibbert and they are squad players now. Yes I agree that there was some nervy football last season but that was more down to self confidence and crowd reaction rather than a manager making them nervous. With regards to Stones IMO the Liverpool game would have been his last game for a very long time under Moyes but Martinez forgives mistakes especially in youngsters as he knows they can quickly learn from them and become better through the experience rather than dropping them and not showing trust or faith in them.

'Had we been injury free in 13/14 Stones wouldn't have played in the league.'.....is also an assumption.
 
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