The Moyes influence on Everton.

[Boss_Blue]

It appears that those who always have their say on the matter are making sure they get their message across again. Great.

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[davek]

I agree mate - we compromised on ambition to gain stability and then waited too long to remove the shackles (partly due to the fear of removing our safety blanket, which is what Moyes had become).

He (Moyes) always had his eye on respectability. Being expansive meant opening yourself up to the possibility of heavy defeat. He could never tolerate that because he knew it'd be a black mark on his CV that'd place an obstacle on him later landing 'bigger and better' things.

His objective was to manage prudently a top half table club and hope to nick a Euro spot. Which is ok as an ambition, but not if it's also at the expense of trying to entertain people too. There might have been a good few thrilling games, but there was precious little evidence of wanting to build a football team that could be creative and entertain by dominating the ball and the opposition.

 

[bluemangroup]

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Not him. he's in another thread banging the Yarmo drum.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

And the Chelsea team we ran into that day was the greatest iteration of their Abramovich period.

That said, Hibbo / Osman right side that day

Our lack of depth hurt us big time in that Final

But yeah, that Chelsea team was very strong and it was a game too far

He should have left after that game really, rather than sticking around. Had he left straight after, he'd probably be thought of more fondly

Everyone has 20/20 hindsight though

 

[Groucho]

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Leave that for now.

For me, Moyes was what we needed at the time. Imagine what winning one game against Chelsea in 2009 would do to the tone of this thread.

Perhaps he stayed too long, and yes his football was boring at times but that was in stark contrast to Walter Smith. His 'plucky little Everton' mindset was toxic though, but I don't think he was bad. It's just that he wasn't a winner.

 

[Boss_Blue]

He (Moyes) always had his eye on respectability. Being expansive meant opening yourself up to the possibility of heavy defeat. He could never tolerate that because he knew it'd be a black mark on his CV that'd place an obstacle on him later landing 'bigger and better' things.

His objective was to manage prudently a top half table club and hope to nick a Euro spot. Which is ok as an ambition, but not if it's also at the expense of trying to entertain people too. There might have been a good few thrilling games, but there was precious little evidence of wanting to build a football team that could be creative and entertain by dominating the ball and the opposition.

Agree again mate (although the bolded piece is subjective it is likely to have been true).

 

[Groucho]

He (Moyes) always had his eye on respectability. Being expansive meant opening yourself up to the possibility of heavy defeat. He could never tolerate that because he knew it'd be a black mark on his CV that'd place an obstacle on him later landing 'bigger and better' things.

His objective was to manage prudently a top half table club and hope to nick a Euro spot. Which is ok as an ambition, but not if it's also at the expense of trying to entertain people too. There might have been a good few thrilling games, but there was precious little evidence of wanting to build a football team that could be creative and entertain by dominating the ball and the opposition.

In many ways, also true of Roy Hodgson.

Totally risk-averse.

 

[bluemangroup]

Leave that for now.

For me, Moyes was what we needed at the time. Imagine what winning one game against Chelsea in 2009 would do to the tone of this thread.

Perhaps he stayed too long, and yes his football was boring at times but that was in stark contrast to Walter Smith. His 'plucky little Everton' mindset was toxic though, but I don't think he was bad. It's just that he wasn't a winner.

But that toxic attitude fostered a real team spirit and a dressing room that all pulled together. We did overachieve in his tenure here and Martinez has directly benefitted from it. There are things Martinez does better but he's very much fleshing the bones of Moyes work.

 

[davek]

Pure fantasy. Osman Arteta Baines Pienaar Lescott Yakubu Cahill all had some great interplay when they were at the club. Over 11 years there'll be some bad football and some good football it wasn't free flowing all the time but to just say it was all dire is absolutely ridiculous.

Martinez served up the biggest pile of dirge I've ever seen last season, some of the worst in the league. We panicked about with it at the back before Howard would just launch it anyway. Three defensive mids, strikers on the wings, slow turgid passing followed by a goalkeeper punt, it was brutal.

The football in his first season though (and so far this season) has been good. So it seems all managers are capable of serving up some bad stuff.

In the early days Moyes had some poor players. Thinking they could play an attractive brand of football and win enough games to get to Europe is the same sort of stupidity that Martinez showed last season thinking that Etoo and Naismith out wide could do the same job as Pienaar and Osman.

Moyes was a pragmatist. When he had his good players fit we played good football. When he didn't, he didn't ask Neville Rodwell and Heitinga to play the same way as Arteta Pienaar and Osman so it would be more direct to give us a chance of a result.

I hope all our players stay fit and in form this season and we go one better than 13/14 and play great football on the way to the top 4. If we start getting injuries though, or lose confidence/form, will Martinez be able to adapt to avoid what happened last season (when he basically just ignored all the problems and waited for his players to get fit again) or will he put his head in the sand again? We will see.

The biggest difference between Martinez and Moyes is that poor performances from a Martinez team will result from an attempt to open up teams and subsequently get punished; poor performances from Moyes' teams resulted from the decision by the manager to stifle the game, keep it tight and react to the opposition rather than engage them.

 

[edge]

Our lack of depth hurt us big time in that Final

But yeah, that Chelsea team was very strong and it was a game too far

He should have left after that game really, rather than sticking around. Had he left straight after, he'd probably be thought of more fondly

Everyone has 20/20 hindsight though

You know what we should have all saved are time and money that day stayed at home and just gave Chelsea the cup,they were that good .
might as well have as it turned out .

 

[davek]

In many ways, also true of Roy Hodgson.

Totally risk-averse.

That's exactly what he was mate.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

But that toxic attitude fostered a real team spirit and a dressing room that all pulled together. We did overachieve in his tenure here and Martinez has directly benefitted from it. There are things Martinez does better but he's very much fleshing the bones of Moyes work.

Your differing with Groucho on that subject only only serves to highlight how this isn't a cut and dry issue

It's perfect for debate in fact

 

[orly]

You know what we should have all saved are time and money that day stayed at home and just gave Chelsea the cup,they were that good .
might as well have as it turned out .

Nah we could have won that.

There's a through ball in the first half that if Fellaini was a bit braver, he scores to make it 2-0.

Also Osman and Hibbert.

 

[edge]

Leave that for now.

For me, Moyes was what we needed at the time. Imagine what winning one game against Chelsea in 2009 would do to the tone of this thread.

Perhaps he stayed too long, and yes his football was boring at times but that was in stark contrast to Walter Smith. His 'plucky little Everton' mindset was toxic though, but I don't think he was bad. It's just that he wasn't a winner.

This nails It for me

 

[kev]

I have seen every Everton manager since Johhny Carey took a ride in the back of a taxi and ALL of them (yes even Mike Walker) have had my backing and of course ALL of them have influenced the club (that is their job)
Is there still some Moyes influence at the club ? Of course there is. Some level of influence will remain until we no longer have a player or member of staff remaining from Moyes days in charge. This is no different from every other manager who leaves.

The question should be Is the way Everton are percieved by the media still influenced by Moyes time here?
Whether you liked it or not (and I didn't) The 'knife to a gunfight' 'plucky little Everton', 'punching above their weight' type of thing was deliberately fostered by Moyes. This is something that will take time to die down.

Martinez is almost a direct opposite in this respect. His over the top rhetoric, where everything to do with the club is "phenomenal" is something that winds his critics up, but in my view it was exactly what was needed.
His enthusiasm, belief and confidence is contagious.
In my personal view, under Moyes John Stones would have been a Chesea player 10 minutes after the first £20M offer.
After all, what can you do when the big boys come calling ?
Martinez showed what you can do. Tell them to sniff it. We are Everton FC