Roberto Vs Ronald

[Khalekan]

We also hit the post at 3-4... Small margins... I firmly believe if we had scored that (which would've been contender for goal of the season as well, Mirallas backheel volley) we could've gone on to win. We actually played really well in that game, but unfortunately, as was often the case under Martinez, a combination of stupid, unpredictable individual errors and bad luck, meant we ended up losing a close game 6-3. 4 of their goals were flukes or mistakes (Jagielka trying to play the stupidest offside ever, a deflection off Coleman, a deflection off Jagielka, and Besic infamous backheel).

Was Jose still with Chelsea when we thumped them the following season?

 

[davek]

Some are forgetting just how bad Martinez was. That Anfield 4-0, that Sunderland 3-0...

There was plenty more instances of sheer embarrassment under Martinez than Koeman but Martinez was a much more likable man and that goes a long way...

Just looking at it from hidings taken angle:

Martinez hidings taken

2013/14

Liverpool 4-0 Everton

2014/15

Everton 2-6 Chelsea
Southampton 3-0 Everton

2015/16

Liverpool 4-0 Everton
United 3-0 Everton
Sunderland 3-0 Everton


Koeman hidings taken

2016/17

Chelsea 5-0 Everton
Everton 0-3 Chelsea

2017/18

Everton 0-3 Spurs
United 4-0 Everton
Everton 2-5 Arsenal


Obviously there's more to embarrassing performances than high scoring defeats, but Martinez suffered relatively few whilst here - only one more than Koeman who was much less than half as long. God knows how many he'd have run up if he'd been here three seasons.

 

[MikeH72]

We also hit the post at 3-4... Small margins... I firmly believe if we had scored that (which would've been contender for goal of the season as well, Mirallas backheel volley) we could've gone on to win. We actually played really well in that game, but unfortunately, as was often the case under Martinez, a combination of stupid, unpredictable individual errors and bad luck, meant we ended up losing a close game 6-3. 4 of their goals were flukes or mistakes (Jagielka trying to play the stupidest offside ever, a deflection off Coleman, a deflection off Jagielka, and Besic infamous backheel).

We lost it because he chose to continue playing a goalkeeper that couldn't save a shot and subsequently conceded 6 from 7 shots on target.

 

[MikeH72]

Was Jose still with Chelsea when we thumped them the following season?

Yeah but they were about 15th when we played them and every player had phoned it in.

 

[TennesseeBlue]

Martinez’ first season was magical, that puts him way above Koeman for me. Even when we were terrible and conceding like a back alley prostitute we were still scoring and entertaining in his final two seasons.

Koeman’s team was never really enjoyable to watch, and while last season was solid and exciting because some of the younger players coming on, it doesn’t hold a candle to the first season of Martinez

 

[Kev50]

Martinez had the advantage of taking over a settled unit, unlike the trembling basket case bequeathed to RonRon

 

[Blue83]

They both had obsessions with repeating mistakes in player selection though
Martinez obsessed with playing Howard
Koeman obsessed with playing both Schneiderlin and Gueye

If we ignore the fact that Martinez at least bought us Lukaku while Koeman sold him, I'd say they're both pretty equally terrible

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

Betterer?
Surely you mean worserer

 

[DualityNSNO]

Betterer?
Surely you mean worserer

Or bettererest.

 

[Blackwell Livermore]

Most people liked Martinez the person, not the manager.

I think now everyone dislikes both sides of Koeman.

Only one of them "got" Everton Football Club, and that one was the manager who got us 5th, a decent Europe run and a few good cup runs.

Martinez > Koeman.

As did I until he threatened to sue. I now hope his willy falls off.

 

[Blackwell Livermore]

WHY DO PEOPLE PRETEND MARTINEZ FIRST SEASON DIDN'T HAPPEN FFS!?

It happened and it was glorious, but it was Moyes' team with an added attacking flair. He was found out big time in his second season.

 

[toffee-L]

Both turned out to be a streaming pile of dung, what are we debating here exactly, who smelled the worst?

Martinez was an arrogant bellend who blamed everyone but himself for his failures and dragged players like Baines through the mud when they dared call him out on his loser football. Not to mention he also took the club for like £10m after failing two seasons in a row.

Koeman was also an arrogant bellend who blamed every man and his dog for his inability to set up a team properly, he's left this club with Ashley Williams (a heinous crime in itself) and we are worse off than we were when he took over. Oh, and he'll also probably get a whopping severance payment as well.

The sad/hilarious thing is they both look like amateurs compared to David Moyes of all people, two thoroughly forgettable managers.

 

[toffee-L]

Just looking at it from hidings taken angle:

Martinez hidings taken

2013/14

Liverpool 4-0 Everton

2014/15

Everton 2-6 Chelsea
Southampton 3-0 Everton

2015/16

Liverpool 4-0 Everton
United 3-0 Everton
Sunderland 3-0 Everton


Koeman hidings taken

2016/17

Chelsea 5-0 Everton
Everton 0-3 Chelsea

2017/18

Everton 0-3 Spurs
United 4-0 Everton
Everton 2-5 Arsenal


Obviously there's more to embarrassing performances than high scoring defeats, but Martinez suffered relatively few whilst here - only one more than Koeman who was much less than half as long. God knows how many he'd have run up if he'd been here three seasons.

The games Martinez threw away from seemingly insurmountable positions hurt his legacy, if he has one, more than any hidings we took.

 

[davek]

The games Martinez threw away from seemingly insurmountable positions hurt his legacy, if he has one, more than any hidings we took.

They came pretty much in the last 5 months he was here.

In the first two seasons we were pegged back late on only three times: Liverpool in the 3-3 game and Palace twice 2-3.

The final season there was five of them: Bournemouth 3-3; Leicester 2-3; Stoke 3-4; Chelsea 2-2; West Ham 2-3. The Chelsea and Bournemouth draws were appalling officiating going over the time added on by about two minutes each time.

But yeah, row z etc was the right tactic late on.

 

[Khalekan]

Yeah but they were about 15th when we played them and every player had phoned it in.

You see, I thought we played better the season we lost 3-6 than we did when we beat them 3-1

That first fixture was a heck of a spectacle and could have gone either way up until they scored the fifth.