Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[toffee-L]

There is a frightening percentage of RS fans who don't realise this.

Practically the whole ground was singing 'one lying barsteward' at Evra. They hadn't got the propaganda memo, they're supposed to say he said it but he was being pally.

Thing is a lot (and i mean a LOT) of them go with both lines without any awareness that they contradict each other.

Honestly the weirdest bunch of people on the planet.

You can't cure stupid.

 

[toffeeblue9]

There is a frightening percentage of RS fans who don't realise this.

Practically the whole ground was singing 'one lying barsteward' at Evra. They hadn't got the propaganda memo, they're supposed to say he said it but he was being pally.

Thing is a lot (and i mean a LOT) of them go with both lines without any awareness that they contradict each other.

Honestly the weirdest bunch of people on the planet.

The thing about the Suarez affair which most of the reds I speak to seem to overlook or are unaware of is that his own club mates gave statements which implicated him.

Evra asked Suarez in Spanish "why did you kick me?"

Suarez replied "because you are black" (por que tu es negro) - this is according to the statement that Commolli gave, having spoken to Suarez in Spanish after the game and relaying what Suarez had told him he said. Dirk Kuyt also gave a statement saying that Suarez had told him exactly the same thing, this time in Dutch (Suarez had picked up some Dutch from his 5 years or so playing for Groningen and Ajax). But will they have it?

 

[Tel001]

He got an 8 game suspension for racism as well, have you forgotten the entire Evra incident ?

Terry also got banned for his comments to Anton Ferdinand.

Please stop with this 'dey get away wiv it cos dey r a big club' nonsense. Literally ALL the evidence points to them not getting away with racism.

As for the rest of your post it's all a bit strawman tbh, you need to back it up with stats that they are favoured more. I think it's a bit rich going on about them getting more penalties when we've had the most penalties awarded in the league this year (including some proper spawny ones) and the two biggest clubs (United and Liverpool) are near the bottom of the table.

https://www.statbunker.com/competitions/ForPenalty?comp_id=586

In my experience no one can ever back up their claims about favourtism with statistics so im inclined to believe it's just irrational/emotional football fans doing what they do best... be paranoid. Literally every clubs fans think they are persecuted by the FA, this should tell you something !

It's also nearly always the big clubs managers who get banned from sidelines, this will partly be down to personality but its yet more evidence that if you're a gosh*te you get punished regardless of which club you represent.



at the request of the FA... forgot that bit didn't you

Mate we have had penaltys THIS SEASON . Didn't Man U only concede one penalty in twenty years at old Trafford? The club banned cantona not the fa when has that ever happened at another club? You forgot about when Wenger whinged about andy Johnston? You forgot when they changed the CL rules to let the RS in and then decided to let colina referee for an extra year, only for him to ref our game and then retire? You forgot about blowing the full time whistle as the ball was rolling into the RS goal? Gerard whispering to the ref and a yellow magically becomes a red card? Gerrard nearly breaking naismiths leg on purpose? Owen two footed tackle in front of the red and wasn't booked? Kuyt going in two footed and waiste high on Neville? You forgot about 7mins added time to allow Chelsea to score an equaliser that was 4 yards offside ? That's just examples of Everton playing against top teams. Spurs scoring from the half way line and the ball being about 3 yards in the goal ? Henry handball against Ireland? It's at all levels mate. You might say all teams can say similar stories over a season... but that isn't true , most teams can say it, but the top teams rarely get things go against them.

 

[Tel001]

Bit of a poor argument that given they have been one of the top sides in the league nearly all that time. Or are you saying only the league winners get given lots of penalties ?



So they have 3 more than arsenal and 8 more than Man United over a 30 year period and you think that points to a conspiracy ? cmon man.

The stats are pointless anyway without knowing how many were legit penalties and how many were ropey.

Isn't it pretty common knowledge that after carragher pulled down lescott in the final minute. He said to Moyes "you don't give pens against them in the last minute" Moyes has a rant that should have gotten him and FA charge, he was actually asking for it and said he will state the fact if they charge him. No charge was ever brought to him and clattenburg didn't ref us again until Moyes had gone. That's correct isn't it?

 

[toffeeblue9]

Isn't it pretty common knowledge that after carragher pulled down lescott in the final minute. He said to Moyes "you don't give pens against them in the last minute" Moyes has a rant that should have gotten him and FA charge, he was actually asking for it and said he will state the fact if they charge him. No charge was ever brought to him and clattenburg didn't ref us again until Moyes had gone. That's correct isn't it?

That's the widely-accepted version of events, yes. You won't find any actual quotes anywhere though, for obvious reasons

 

[Ron Swanson]

Looking more and more like Firmino said nothing racist and Holgate honestly just misheard him. A rather unfortunate misunderstanding that probably shouldn't have been made public until after investigation (if at all). Holgate was absolutely right to report it if that's what he thought he heard so really shouldn't be subject to abuse.

It's wishful thinking to hope that their fans (and ours) just let this go in that case. More likely that both players will be subject to unnecessary abuse from the stands.

 

[AndyC]

Looking more and more like Firmino said nothing racist and Holgate honestly just misheard him. A rather unfortunate misunderstanding that probably shouldn't have been made public until after investigation (if at all). Holgate was absolutely right to report it if that's what he thought he heard so really shouldn't be subject to abuse.

It's wishful thinking to hope that their fans (and ours) just let this go in that case. More likely that both players will be subject to unnecessary abuse from the stands.

If this is indeed the case that Mason misheard or misunderstood whatever Firmino said, then the sooner the two clubs get together and make a joint statement with both players agreeing to shake hands and put it all behind them... the better.

We can all move on and anyone prolonging the argument can rightly be castigated for incitement.

 

[Raino85]

Looking more and more like Firmino said nothing racist and Holgate honestly just misheard him. A rather unfortunate misunderstanding that probably shouldn't have been made public until after investigation (if at all). Holgate was absolutely right to report it if that's what he thought he heard so really shouldn't be subject to abuse.

It's wishful thinking to hope that their fans (and ours) just let this go in that case. More likely that both players will be subject to unnecessary abuse from the stands.

Hows that the case, no one has heard anything yet?

 

[Stuartisitc1878]

If this is indeed the case that Mason misheard or misunderstood whatever Firmino said, then the sooner the two clubs get together and make a joint statement with both players agreeing to shake hands and put it all behind them... the better.

We can all move on and anyone prolonging the argument can rightly be castigated for incitement.

this. rivalry aside you don't want to see either player getting abuse if it was a misunderstanding.

 

[Harryflashman]

Hows that the case, no one has heard anything yet?

Daily mirror ?

I think it’s entirely possible he misheard and I’ve thought so from the start but we’ve absolutely no idea and apart from Some spurious reporting nothing seems to have told us anything further since the live footage of the event .

 

[toffeeblue9]

Looking more and more like Firmino said nothing racist and Holgate honestly just misheard him. A rather unfortunate misunderstanding that probably shouldn't have been made public until after investigation (if at all). Holgate was absolutely right to report it if that's what he thought he heard so really shouldn't be subject to abuse.

It's wishful thinking to hope that their fans (and ours) just let this go in that case. More likely that both players will be subject to unnecessary abuse from the stands.

Is it? Based on what?

To be fair, I think that's probably been the most likely explanation all along, but I've not seen anything other than the ridiculous "he said puta" stuff (we know he said that, it's what is potentially said afterwards when the camera can't see him that's the potential problem), which attempts to suggest one way or the other that it's an issue or not

 

[Saint Domingo]

The thing about the Suarez affair which most of the reds I speak to seem to overlook or are unaware of is that his own club mates gave statements which implicated him.

Evra asked Suarez in Spanish "why did you kick me?"

Suarez replied "because you are black" (por que tu es negro) - this is according to the statement that Commolli gave, having spoken to Suarez in Spanish after the game and relaying what Suarez had told him he said. Dirk Kuyt also gave a statement saying that Suarez had told him exactly the same thing, this time in Dutch (Suarez had picked up some Dutch from his 5 years or so playing for Groningen and Ajax). But will they have it?

His legacy should be that he was banned for racism and bit two players, one in a World Cup and one in the prem. instead the kopite media machine has painted a picture of this unbelievable player who won them the league challenge (no one mentions they didn’t win it). Their fans still will protest his innocence because they’ve been drip fed the line that it was all a conspiracy against poor Luis.

 

[toffeeblue9]

His legacy should be that he was banned for racism and bit two players, one in a World Cup and one in the prem. instead the kopite media machine has painted a picture of this unbelievable player who won them the league challenge (no one mentions they didn’t win it). Their fans still will protest his innocence because they’ve been drip fed the line that it was all a conspiracy against poor Luis.

Also bit a player in Holland

 

[tsubaki]

Also bit a player in Holland

and that handball in the quarter finals with Ghana

 

[TraffordBlue]

If this is indeed the case that Mason misheard or misunderstood whatever Firmino said, then the sooner the two clubs get together and make a joint statement with both players agreeing to shake hands and put it all behind them... the better.

We can all move on and anyone prolonging the argument can rightly be castigated for incitement.

Exactly right. If nothing racist was said and Holgate just misinterpreted, then this would be best solved by Holgate admitting he got the wrong idea and apologise. RS or not, it's unfair on Firmino that he has had to deal with this accusation if it is untrue.

But similarly, I don't think opposition fans, including that lot can claim that he lied if he misheard. They have no proof.

Until I hear otherwise as well, it's not looking to me like 'nothing racist' was said. No one on here knows until we hear more about the investigation and no amount of silence from both clubs or lip reader accounts from the Mirror (before the accusation took place) will convince me otherwise.