Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

[davek]

Isnt this what gash players say to compensate for their lack of skill?

Yes.

 

[DrEFC]

Tim Cahill always seemed come across that way worked his socks off to maximize his talents

Tim got knocked back a lot of times as a youngster, and we seem to be going for this type of player- had some form of adversity to overcome to make it as a player, not just sailed through academies ect- see Lookman, Bolasie, Onyekuru, Josh Bowler. Ones with hunger, without entitlement.

 

[DrEFC]

Sir Philip Neville.

No one doubts he was professional lollol

 

[DrEFC]

Yes.

It's not Dave, at an elite event- there will be many that rose to the top based on natural skill. It's the hardest working and most dedicated that consistently win.

 

[davek]

It's not Dave, at an elite event- there will be many that rose to the top based on natural skill. It's the hardest working and most dedicated that consistently win.

Skill + hard work will trump skill + slacking.

I believe that was the nature of the quotation in the OP as endorsed by Koeman.

That's true. But it hardly needs to be stated, and when it is it's almost always done as a means to amplify the importance of hard work and downplay skill.

It's a quotation laden with meaning...and from my p.o.v. is it's message is that grafters are more welcome than creative types.

 

[vagant59]

I agree. But it's all off the ball stuff. Football teams are so described because of what they do with the ball at their feet. Footballers are only accomplished individually by being comfortable on the ball and using it to effect.

The hero worship of a class of players that can run all day and close down is bewildering to me. Just about anyone who is physically fit can do it.

They also have to want to do it,that is what makes some of the players great

 

[DrEFC]

Skill + hard work will trump skill + slacking.

I believe that was the nature of the quotation in the OP as endorsed by Koeman.

That's true. But it hardly needs to be stated, and when it is it's almost always done as a means to amplify the importance of hard work and downplay skill.

It's a quotation laden with meaning...and from my p.o.v. is it's message is that grafters are more welcome than creative types.

No, that's your interpretation to use as a stick to beat Koeman with. They will all know they have skills better than non-professionals. They just need to apply it. It's just sport psychology, not be a marathon-running grock.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

That's right, but he's hero worshipped because of his ability to do things on the ball, not for the gym work and stamina work he puts in on the training ground.

The hard work should be seen as perfunctory and not worth commenting on as a quality. It's like congratulating human beings for taking in oxygen and expelling it every couple of seconds.

Being an athlete requires training and constant effort, but it still remains that those who put more work in are the better players, and teams. Messi is the perfect example of this, he never stops working ,on or off the pitch.

 

[Darth Toffeeman]

Skill + hard work will trump skill + slacking.

I believe that was the nature of the quotation in the OP as endorsed by Koeman.

That's true. But it hardly needs to be stated, and when it is it's almost always done as a means to amplify the importance of hard work and downplay skill.

It's a quotation laden with meaning...and from my p.o.v. is it's message is that grafters are more welcome than creative types.

I think that it is very relevant now in an era where a player could retire after half a season such are the riches offered at a big club in this league.

Increasingly players lack the desire and commitment to be the very best.

Any young kid with the gift to be a top footballer is aware of the financial rewards more so than the aim of being a winner.

Agents are more to blame than anyone. How many great players have been lost to the benches of the rich clubs.

Koeman is right to demand every ounce of effort from his players. Combine that with skill and hopefully put an end to the dreadful trophyless period that is so unbefiting of this great club.

 

[Neiler]

Joe Parkinson though.

 

[PhilM]

Being an athlete requires training and constant effort, but it still remains that those who put more work in are the better players, and teams. Messi is the perfect example of this, he never stops working ,on or off the pitch.

The natural skill a player may posses could arguably push a player further than a player who may lack raw talent but merely works hard.

Yet on the other hand, hard work and determination shouldn't be dismissed as they can multiply a players ability and effectiveness on the pitch.

I use Naismith as a recent example - technically not the best however I'd argue that he had many positive impacts in a number of key games.

Also, raw talent alone isn't enough to guarantee success as football is now becoming a more physically elite sport; there's almost a glass ceiling.

The likes of Messi and Ronaldo have an abundance of talent but they match it with a mentality of tenacity, hard-work and searching for perfection.

Deulofeu has all the technical capabilities to be a great player, and on numerous occasions he showed that, but it's silly to ignore his failings.

Is he physical at the top of his game? Nope. Did he consistently or even regularly show tenacity and drive during games? Can't say he did.

Perhaps that's why he neither succeed here or at Sevilla and Barca beforehand. We all want talented players, but there must also be work rate!

 

[perth_blue]

Gibson.

 

[Paul Rideout]

People always undervalue the skill/attributes involved in intelligent off the ball work. I know it's not Everton, but the ultimate example who had skills/attributes which were totally undervalued because they were closing down, & intelligent off the ball work defensively is Claude Makalele @ Real Madrid.

I don't think it's in everyone's psyche to do these things, which is why the ones that can work their b@lls off at the right moments are so easily identifiable.

 

[Smig1878]

You cant have quality play without being fit enough to delver it. It's axiomatic.

But too much emphasis is placed these days on chasing and pressing and elevating basic stuff like that as a skill. It isn't. It's just the huff and puff of play that has to be there to deliver quality play when you get the ball.

The fetishisation of running distances is ridiculous. It's a mundane by-product of football.

It's not the point of the thread though is it? You always need "water carriers" and players who do the hard miles that give the platform for the silkier players to perform I get your juxtaposition of course but you are certainly missing the point. Big Dunc was not the most gifted but he used every attribute he had to his maximum in order to do his utmost for the team.

 

[degsy]

Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

feel the saying was made for a certain Spanish winger we have just lost. I think it's way Koeman ultimately got rid and loaned him out to Milan. It's also why I think he Calvin-Lewin has been given a run in the team. Is there any other players or ex players that fall into this category?

Always did, always will.
Keegan was a prime example.