Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.

[Tigger]

Sir Philip Neville.

 

[davek]

Not many.

As a fan base, we tend to demand effort.

Always thought that was more a trait of that lot over there. Big on work ethic.

Everton traditionally demand skill, the workrate is a by-product.

 

[Nymzee]

Always thought that was more a trait of that lot over there. Big on work ethic.

Everton traditionally demand skill, the workrate is a by-product.

Think you're getting us mixed up otherwise we'd never have taken to players like Straq.

 

[ijjysmith]

Ideally you want both though yeah?

 

[davek]

Ideally you want both though yeah?

You cant have quality play without being fit enough to delver it. It's axiomatic.

But too much emphasis is placed these days on chasing and pressing and elevating basic stuff like that as a skill. It isn't. It's just the huff and puff of play that has to be there to deliver quality play when you get the ball.

The fetishisation of running distances is ridiculous. It's a mundane by-product of football.

 

[Bluebonic]

Joe Parkinson, not the most talented of players but he gave every last ounce of energy on the pitch despite his inability to train properly

That entire midfield mate, not the most talenetd we have ever had, but they would have died for the shirt!

 

[Bluebonic]

You cant have quality play without being fit enough to delver it. It's axiomatic.

But too much emphasis is placed these days on chasing and pressing and elevating basic stuff like that as a skill. It isn't. It's just the huff and puff of play that has to be there to deliver quality play when you get the ball.

The fetishisation of running distances is ridiculous. It's a mundane by-product of football.

For me, hard work isnt simply putting in the miles in the pitch.i despise the stats culture that is now all important. You and i could stand in the middle of a pitch and pass the ball back to each other for 90 minutes and some would be buying us for their fifa games!

Hard work for me, is working for the team, so if the nearest player has lost the ball, you at least try to tackle or slow down the opposition player who has won it. If you see a player burst out from defence with the ball, you try your best to get up the pitch with him, you dont stand there watching? You can also work hard without the ball, making space for your teammates etc.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Nobody is born with an innate mystically bestowed talent. Those who achieve excellence in any sport (or art) are driven by passion and hard work. It has always been the case that the best footballers are those reknowned for putting the extra work in after the training session. It is this ability to put the extra effort in that separates the greats from the rest. In today's game Messi ,arguably the worlds greatest current footballer ,is the perfect example of this. He never stops working.

 

[davek]

For me, hard work isnt simply putting in the miles in the pitch.i despise the stats culture that is now all important. You and i could stand in the middle of a pitch and pass the ball back to each other for 90 minutes and some would be buying us for their fifa games!

Hard work for me, is working for the team, so if the nearest player has lost the ball, you at least try to tackle or slow down the opposition player who has won it. If you see a player burst out from defence with the ball, you try your best to get up the pitch with him, you dont stand there watching? You can also work hard without the ball, making space for your teammates etc.

I agree. But it's all off the ball stuff. Football teams are so described because of what they do with the ball at their feet. Footballers are only accomplished individually by being comfortable on the ball and using it to effect.

The hero worship of a class of players that can run all day and close down is bewildering to me. Just about anyone who is physically fit can do it.

 

[davek]

Nobody is born with an innate mystically bestowed talent. Those who achieve excellence in any sport (or art) are driven by passion and hard work. It has always been the case that the best footballers are those reknowned for putting the extra work in after the training session. It is this ability to put the extra effort in that separates the greats from the rest. In today's game Messi ,arguably the worlds greatest current footballer ,is the perfect example of this. He never stops working.

That's right, but he's hero worshipped because of his ability to do things on the ball, not for the gym work and stamina work he puts in on the training ground.

The hard work should be seen as perfunctory and not worth commenting on as a quality. It's like congratulating human beings for taking in oxygen and expelling it every couple of seconds.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

I agree. But it's all off the ball stuff. Football teams are so described because of what they do with the ball at their feet. Footballers are only accomplished individually by being comfortable on the ball and using it to effect.

The hero worship of a class of players that can run all day and close down is bewildering to me. Just about anyone who is physically fit can do it.

What a team does off the ball is as important as what it does with it. It is no good if a team scores a sublime goal then stands idly around as the opposition bangs in three.

 

[ijjysmith]

You cant have quality play without being fit enough to delver it. It's axiomatic.

But too much emphasis is placed these days on chasing and pressing and elevating basic stuff like that as a skill. It isn't. It's just the huff and puff of play that has to be there to deliver quality play when you get the ball.

The fetishisation of running distances is ridiculous. It's a mundane by-product of football.

Yeah, so ideally you want both.

 

[davek]

What a team does off the ball is as important as what it does with it. It is no good if a team scores a sublime goal then stands idly around as the opposition bangs in three.

Of course it is. It's just not worth elevating and making fancy quotes about that convey faux profundity. .

 

[davek]

Yeah, so ideally you want both.

You need foundations to build a house. You wouldn't want to live on top of just the foundations though, would you? They are the ugly but necessary basis for living in a home.

 

[kenada_blue]

Isnt this what gash players say to compensate for their lack of skill?