Baines

[kenada_blue]

Ha ha we all talk about squad depth and then get annoyed when we use it.

Simple fact is that he will play some games and wont play others mainly down to his stature (if only we had a similar option for Ossie in some games) but hes a very good player and has a lot of class and i loved the some of the play between him and Pienaar against Newcastle he set up both goals. Has to be said he is one of the very few fullbacks in the country who can change a game, this is why he is invaluable.

Can i also just make the point what happens if we sustain an injury at centre back, Baines is a shu in!

Anyone remember a certain Mr. Valente!

Squad depths all well and good. But....

He's a class left back. Probably one of the best English left backs in the league.
We dont have any money.
He wants games.
Sunderland, Fulham, Villa etc all do have money and wouldnt break a sweat to pay £6-7million for him.
He'll get games week in week out, we get money, Valente will be fine for a year, Lescott never gets injured -- everyones a winner.

That's the way I see it. Dont want him to go but if he does go it wont be a hard for anyone to come an agreement if he's sold in January.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

You don't see the likes of Arsenal, Man utd, Chelsea and Liverpool worrying about the size of the fullbacks when they play against an opposition winger who's six foot plus.

The likes of Evra, Clinchy and Cole aren't big players at all. You don't see Wenger playing Gallas at left back because he's tall.

I just thing we need to get a team and stick to it, especially a the back four which has suffered from chopping and changing.

Baines is a good player and eventually he will want games. He's tried battling for his place and he obviously isn't convincing Moyes which is proven by Moyes dropping everytime we play Liverpool, Man utd etc.

Either give him a game or he'll move on, that's just the way it is. He needs to be playing under a manager who appreaciates him.

 

[Dom1878]

You don't see the likes of Arsenal, Man utd, Chelsea and Liverpool worrying about the size of the fullbacks when they play against an opposition winger who's six foot plus.

The likes of Evra, Clinchy and Cole aren't big players at all. You don't see Wenger playing Gallas at left back because he's tall.

I just thing we need to get a team and stick to it, especially a the back four which has suffered from chopping and changing.

Baines is a good player and eventually he will want games. He's tried battling for his place and he obviously isn't convincing Moyes which is proven by Moyes dropping everytime we play Liverpool, Man utd etc.

Either give him a game or he'll move on, that's just the way it is. He needs to be playing under a manager who appreaciates him.

Lahm is the perfect example, one of the best fullbacks imo, and hes tiny!

 

[Philw]

Baines is a good player and eventually he will want games. He's tried battling for his place and he obviously isn't convincing Moyes which is proven by Moyes dropping everytime we play Liverpool, Man utd etc.

Aside from the game on the w/e, we generally fail against the sky 4 of late, so i dont see why we don't just try and cause them some problems instead of futiley trying to stop them, and just play baines instead.

He who dares/fortune favors/better to live one day etc etc

 

[Neiler]

You don't see the likes of Arsenal, Man utd, Chelsea and Liverpool worrying about the size of the fullbacks when they play against an opposition winger who's six foot plus.

The likes of Evra, Clinchy and Cole aren't big players at all. You don't see Wenger playing Gallas at left back because he's tall.

I just thing we need to get a team and stick to it, especially a the back four which has suffered from chopping and changing.

Baines is a good player and eventually he will want games. He's tried battling for his place and he obviously isn't convincing Moyes which is proven by Moyes dropping everytime we play Liverpool, Man utd etc.

Either give him a game or he'll move on, that's just the way it is. He needs to be playing under a manager who appreaciates him.

Theres a big difference for all those mentioned playing with the likes of Malouda, Walcott and Ronaldo in fornt of them, are winger come inside and Moyes prefers his full backs be the one that give the team width. Playing with Lescott in the middle gives extra height for corners etc while also offering those sheilding the ball out of play charicteristics that are usefull against certain temas.

Like i said squad depth!

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Theres a big difference for all those mentioned playing with the likes of Malouda, Walcott and Ronaldo in fornt of them, are winger come inside and Moyes prefers his full backs be the one that give the team width. Playing with Lescott in the middle gives extra height for corners etc while also offering those sheilding the ball out of play charicteristics that are usefull against certain temas.

Like i said squad depth!

Arsenal's fullbacks offer the width, Sagna and Clincy continually bomb on. Arsenal attack as a team as do the likes of Man utd and Chelsea.

Anyway, that doesn't have anything to do with height and physical presence. As I said you don't see the likes of Wenger dropping Clinchy because he's a small fullback. The majority of fullbacks are of average height. The top teams don't drop there small players in big games, I don't see why we should.

Squad depth for now yes, in january or in the summer he'll be gone if he doesn't get the games and play regularly. I'm sure of that.

 

[Neiler]

Arsenal's fullbacks offer the width, Sagna and Clincy continually bomb on. Arsenal attack as a team as do the likes of Man utd and Chelsea.

Anyway, that doesn't have anything to do with height and physical presence. As I said you don't see the likes of Wenger dropping Clinchy because he's a small fullback. The majority of fullbacks are of average height. The top teams don't drop there small players in big games, I don't see why we should.

Squad depth for now yes, in january or in the summer he'll be gone if he doesn't get the games and play regularly. I'm sure of that.

Eh perhaps i didnt make myself clear mate, because they also have world class wingers!

 

[Seamus Colemole]

I think the main reason for playing Lescott instead of Baines isn't just to bring height to the defence but height to the team overall because other than Jags and Yobo we have Fellaini who are tall.

And Fellaini has been pretty [Poor language removed] for winning headers since he has been here (although he seems to be getting better) so that leaves us with just 2 players so at the moment in certain games Lescott comes into the team at Baines expense.

Its good tactical play from Moyes.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Eh perhaps i didnt make myself clear mate, because they also have world class wingers!

And?

We have very good wide players. We also have a winger infront of Baines who's one of the hardest working players in the League, Steven Pienaar. Very few wide players in the League cover there fullbacks better than Pienaar.

I don't see what the problem is to be honest, very few teams drop there fullbacks when someone has a big winger. It's certainly not very common. If Moyes keeps doing it I'd expect Baines to leave. If he was continually getting beat at the back post then fair enough but that isn't the case, he hasn't been beaten once at the back post.

I just don't think Moyes fancies Baines, he certainly doesn't show alot of faith in him.

 

[Neiler]

And?

We have very good wide players. We also have a winger infront of Baines who's one of the hardest working players in the League, Steven Pienaar. Very few wide players in the League cover there fullbacks better than Pienaar.

I don't see what the problem is to be honest, very few teams drop there fullbacks when someone has a big winger. It's certainly not very common. If Moyes keeps doing it I'd expect Baines to leave. If he was continually getting beat at the back post then fair enough but that isn't the case, he hasn't been beaten once at the back post.

I just don't think Moyes fancies Baines, he certainly doesn't show alot of faith in him.

Pieanarr - Ronaldo enough said!

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Pieanarr - Ronaldo enough said!

And what's that go to do with Baines?:huh:

 

[zero]

Pieanarr - Ronaldo enough said!

Pienaar did quite a number on Ronaldo this season.

with help from Neville.

 

[Neiler]

And what's that go to do with Baines?:huh:

Quite a lot as it goes mate as much as i like Pienaar hes no where near the standard of Ronaldo. Ronaldo very often is tracked and marked by the opposition winger as Zero has said the full back and as a last resort the covering centre half, now i dont know everything about football but i do know taking three players out of a team form the flank offer oppurtunites for the full back in this sense being Evra to overlap while also creating a space for the centre forwards in the box. Ronaldo does this on the wing as well as having the ability to cut inside, and as we saw for much of last season score. In terms of defending having Ronaldo on the wing means that as a danger the opposition full back has to stay back and the opposition winger sits more deeply in case theres a break away, this more or less redfuces the risk and much of the defending that Evra is responsible for giving him licence to go forward. The like of Cole and Clichy are in the same boat thus it applies for Chelsea and Arsenal.

Id doesnt apply for us Baines must defend as well as rely on his attacking strengths he needs to get up and back, he needs to contend with wingers or attacking full back defensively far more then the palyers you mentined. Pienaar simply isnt as much as threat as Ronaldo, Walcot or Malouda albeit he is a very good player. As is Baines but to compare him to the likes of Cole, Evra, Clichey and what they offer for their teams in the context of the quality players they play with is really unfair on the lad, and yes his staure is important playing for Everton in certian games again you know my feeling on Osman too, where its not for the likes of Cole, Clichey, Evra strangely i would imagine although i could be wrong that the players you mentioned are bigger then Baines.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Quite a lot as it goes mate as much as i like Pienaar hes no where near the standard of Ronaldo. Ronaldo very often is tracked and marked by the opposition winger as Zero has said the full back and as a last resort the covering centre half, now i dont know everything about football but i do know taking three players out of a team form the flank offer oppurtunites for the full back in this sense being Evra to overlap while also creating a space for the centre forwards in the box. Ronaldo does this on the wing as well as having the ability to cut inside, and as we saw for much of last season score. In terms of defending having Ronaldo on the wing means that as a danger the opposition full back has to stay back and the opposition winger sits more deeply in case theres a break away, this more or less redfuces the risk and much of the defending that Evra is responsible for giving him licence to go forward. The like of Cole and Clichy are in the same boat thus it applies for Chelsea and Arsenal.

Id doesnt apply for us Baines must defend as well as rely on his attacking strengths he needs to get up and back, he needs to contend with wingers or attacking full back defensively far more then the palyers you mentined. Pienaar simply isnt as much as threat as Ronaldo, Walcot or Malouda albeit he is a very good player. As is Baines but to compare him to the likes of Cole, Evra, Clichey and what they offer for their teams in the context of the quality players they play with is really unfair on the lad, and yes his staure is important playing for Everton in certian games again you know my feeling on Osman too, where its not for the likes of Cole, Clichey, Evra strangely i would imagine although i could be wrong that the players you mentioned are bigger then Baines.

I think we'll have to agree to differ.

I don't agree with Moyes dropping him everytime we play against a tall team or even a team with a winger who's 6ft. It's bollocks in my opinion, the majority of fullbacks are small or of average height. I could give you a massive list of fullbacks who range from 5ft 7-5ft 10.

I think it's just the fact that Moyes doesn't fancy Baines, he doesn't trust him against wingers and that isn't a good thing for the lad. He's a talented player and he needs a manager who trusts him and believes in him.

Drop him if he's not on form, that is fair enough but he's being dropped because of his height. It's a joke, why did Moyes sign him then?

Baines said in the latest Evertonian that it dissapointed him and he has spoke to Moyes about it. If he continue's to do it we'll lose him. We'll be left with a 34 year old fullback and a player who desperatly wants to play centre back.

For me he should have more trust in Baines, give him a go against the likes of Ronaldo and Kuyt and see how he does.

 

[kenada_blue]

Moyes plays Hibbert against Walcott, Malouda, Joe Cole and Ronaldo etc and he aint tall, big or particularly quick. He's always lost at the back post, but is good at tackling, marking/positioning outside the area. Cant pass or cross too well.

So why not play Baines at LB?

I can see the reason why against Manure on the weekend (put the big fellers out, bit of prescene at the back).

Baines played fine in the 1st half against Arsenal, him and Pienaar used the wing well. When Walcot came on we got pinned back. But Walcott is probably one of the quickest players in the world so any team would be pinned back.