Current Affairs Ukraine

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Tree13 said:
Wow.

That's a huge gesture, presuming he follows through on it. I doubt he's going to get any more birthday cards from Putin, unless they contain novichok.
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One of his london based daughters has been posting anti Putin messages on social media.

I think Abramovich can see which way the wind is blowing.

Wouldnt surprise me if he ploughed funds into Russia as soon as the end was near for Putin.
 
davmaher said:
From the BBC re UK sanctions. Looks like the usual mix of lies and dissemination from Johnson and co. Still no news on any Usmanov sanctions by the UK. The Tories have been supping with the Russian devil for so long now it gives them nowhere to go on this without risking full disclosure of what they have been up to.


At Prime Minister's Questions, Boris Johnson told MPs the actions the UK had taken in response to the invasion of Ukraine "are having an effect in Moscow".
He said the UK had sanctioned "275 individuals already, a further 100 last week, the impact is being felt".
Mr Johnson has referred to the 100 figure several times in the past week. But when Reality Check asked for the names of the 100, the government could not provide them and said: "We'll let you know as soon as we have further details to add."
Instead, it sent a list of every person and company currently sanctioned by the UK, including people from Iran and North Korea. It shows that 15 individuals have been sanctioned in the past week:
  • Russian President Vladimir Putin
  • Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov,
  • Belarusian Deputy Minister of Defence for Logistics Maj Gen Andrei Burdyko,
  • General Staff of the Armed Forces of Belarus Maj Gen Victor Gulevich
  • Belarusian Deputy Minister of Defence for Armaments Sergei Simonenko
  • Belarusian Deputy Minister of Defence Andrey Zhuk,
  • Russian Direct Investment Fund chief executive Kirill Dmitriev
  • VTB Bank deputy president Denis Bortnikov
  • Petr Fradkov, who chairs Promsvyazbank
  • PAO Sibur Holding board deputy chairman Kirill Shamalov
  • PJSC United Aircraft Corporation general director Yury Slyusar
  • Elena Georgieva, who chairs the board of Novikombank
  • Bank Rossiya major shareholder Gennadiy Timchenko
  • SMP Bank director Boris Rotenberg
  • Igor Rotenberg, who chairs the board of National Telematic Systems
When asked about this, the prime minister's spokesman said there were 100 individuals and entities.
While the prime minister specified individuals, also adding companies doubles the number, but still does not get to 100.
But UK officials told BBC News that the figure also includes the major subsidiaries of the companies. They said, for example, the sanctioned company Rostec has about 60 subsidiaries, all of which could count towards the number sanctioned.
When it was suggested to Security Minister Damian Hinds on BBC Breakfast on Thursday that only eight Russian oligarchs had become the target of new sanctions, he responded: "what you say is in the right area, but there are going to be more".
We also asked about the 275 figure Mr Johnson mentioned but the government did not provide the details.
Of all the people on the list (not just those sanctioned in the last week), we counted 195 who had been sanctioned as a result of measures linked to Russia.
These date back to events such as the Salisbury poisonings, when a former Russian spy and his daughter were targeted by Russian agents.

List promised​

On Wednesday, Mr Johnson said the government would publish a list of all those with assets related to the Kremlin but failed to say when.
Sanctions he has announced so far include:
  • assets of all major Russian banks will be frozen and excluded from the UK financial system
  • President Putin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov have had their assets frozen
  • Russian companies and the state will be prevented from raising finance or borrowing money on UK markets
  • Aeroflot will be banned from landing in the UK
  • a suspension of dual-use export licences to cover components for military purposes
  • a stop to exports of high-tech items and oil refinery equipment
  • a limit on deposits Russians can make in UK bank accounts
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Now now it's not a competition... Only when Boris spouts his lies backed up with "world leading and beating" nonsense

 
bluebud said:
Putins not going to withdraw with a perceived loss, so been thinking about what deal could be offered to him so he can save face?

Immediate and total ceasefire.

Immediate removal of Russian forces from all Ukrainian territories and “independent states”.

Removal of Zelensky and the current Ukrainian government- is completely off the table.

Denazification- offer of UN enquiry with neutral observers- China can be one. Putin invited to present his evidence, any victims encouraged to come forward- suggestion of educational programming.

Both Russian and Ukrainian languages to be respected, remain in place and be taught in schools.

After full withdrawal of all Russian military, Independence elections to be held in Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk Oblasts, who can choose themselves if they wish to a) remain part of Ukraine b) become independent countries c) become “principality states” similar to Monaco/ lichtenstein/ San Marino.

Russian prisoners of war to be transferred to Kalliningrad, to be detained for an agreed period in a Russian facility overseen by UN and neutral observers- China can be one. Families allowed and funded to visit them.

New election to take place in Belarus - give it go, might be pushing it for now.
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I think the best idea would be to give Putin some kind of 'promotion' -- without any power


bluebud said:
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Was that today?
 
Tree13 said:
Wow.

That's a huge gesture, presuming he follows through on it. I doubt he's going to get any more birthday cards from Putin, unless they contain novichok.
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Not really to him at least heard on a two program's now they believe it amounts to just 5% of his known wealth.. And of course it's why he has resided in the UK with his cash because we allow him and his type to hide and launder their money in the UK.
 
Zatara said:
One of his london based daughters has been posting anti Putin messages on social media.

I think Abramovich can see which way the wind is blowing.

Wouldnt surprise me if he ploughed funds into Russia as soon as the end was near for Putin.
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Or he'll be accused of being a Nazi sympathiser.
Never to be seen again.
 
blulouie said:
Use all the semantics you want.


If the Ukraine wanted to be controlled by Russia they would have done so by the ballot box.

As they emphatically didnt , the ONLY way to judge this is a Democracy has been invaded by a Dictatorship against its will.

The ONLY people that should have a say in what path they choose is the Ukrainian people.

And they have spoke loud and clear.

Your 'take' is immaterial.
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Not semantics. Nevertheless,
there is a very inconvenient truth in what your saying - its insensitive to say at such a time but in such a conversation, necessary - its taken Russia to invade to become united. This is one of the most disputed places on earth, not just externally but internally.
The internal divisions will resurface once peace has been achieved and the dust has settled, which will take sometime, it is likely it will be full blown civil war with many moving parts.
And after the civil war it will be no less stable. The killing and the trauma will continue.
'Not one inch further to the East' I think was the agreement - that was not just meant for the preservation of eastern power but of the horror that would likely come.
 
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