Current Affairs Ukraine

[tsubaki]

This news shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, but I guess some will try to defend it:



Also here is your daily reminder we’ve still not reversed the defence cuts

 

[Kev The Rat]

This news shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, but I guess some will try to defend it:



Also here is your daily reminder we’ve still not reversed the defence cuts

the money will still flow in here, dont you worry. Various entities are desperate to keep the Russian cash rolling.

where there's a will there's a way

 

[tsubaki]

the money wil still flow in here, dont you worry

where there's a will there's a way

I suppose the worrying thing for us is what happens if (when) people wake up and want to remove our current regime, given its at best failure and at worst self-interested connivance at what’s been going on.

 

[PhilM]

Whole thing is grim. Can’t see any resolution here

I keep flipping between how I think it'll pan out: will a robust defence from the Ukraine and support from the west push Russia to the table or to be more dogged?

Even if Russia do eventually win the conventional conflict, I can't see their de-Nazificaiton of Ukraine (cough... occupation and regime change) going well.

It'll be prolonged and bloody, and again is that positive for any side? I feel that sanctions may be one of the only elements that can really push Russia back.

 

[Blue Roo]

So Russia are allowed to control who they sell gas to, but they're also allowed to control who Ukraine sell gas to?

Well this gets back to what the Ukraine is. Its much more simple to see Britain and Ireland as nations and peoples (oops, maybe not the best example), its not that straightforward with the Ukraine.
The Ukraine will either be in the hands of Western matkets (which are bringing us to extinction) or in the hands of Russia.
My take on this is that ideally Ukraine ends up in a federation of Eastern Europe that is not controlled by the old regime, they take a path away from Soviet authoritarianism that does not lead to the West, literally.
That they forge a path that can teach the West a lesson or two on what it's going take to survive. 'Russians, and 'Ukranians' forging a path together, and in so doing providinguch needed stability to the world.
Genuine question, do you think the UK feels more independent after Brexit? Or does it feel like the world is closing in on that independence.
Will the 'liberation' of the Ukraine change any of that.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Well this gets back to what the Ukraine is. Its much more simple to see Britain and Ireland as nations and peoples (oops, maybe not the best example), its not that straightforward with the Ukraine.
The Ukraine will either be in the hands of Western matkets (which are bringing us to extinction) or in the hands of Russia.
My take on this is that ideally Ukraine ends up in a federation of Eastern Europe that is not controlled by the old regime, they take a path away from Soviet authoritarianism that does not lead to the West, literally.
That they forge a path that can teach the West a lesson or two on what it's going take to survive. 'Russians, and 'Ukranians' forging a path together, and in so doing providinguch needed stability to the world.
Genuine question, do you think the UK feels more independent after Brexit? Or does it feel like the world is closing in on that independence.
Will the 'liberation' of the Ukraine change any of that.

I don't see the connection between Brexit and the brutal subjugation of a democracy in Eastern Europe.

Let me ask you a genuine question in return: do you think Ukraine is going to have any enthusiasm to forge any sort of federation with Russia after a sustained campaign of indiscriminate violence against their cities?

As to the sustainability of Russian industry, the Soviet Union and Russia are an ecological disaster.

 

[Prevenger17]

Well this gets back to what the Ukraine is. Its much more simple to see Britain and Ireland as nations and peoples (oops, maybe not the best example), its not that straightforward with the Ukraine.
The Ukraine will either be in the hands of Western matkets (which are bringing us to extinction) or in the hands of Russia.
My take on this is that ideally Ukraine ends up in a federation of Eastern Europe that is not controlled by the old regime, they take a path away from Soviet authoritarianism that does not lead to the West, literally.
That they forge a path that can teach the West a lesson or two on what it's going take to survive. 'Russians, and 'Ukranians' forging a path together, and in so doing providinguch needed stability to the world.
Genuine question, do you think the UK feels more independent after Brexit? Or does it feel like the world is closing in on that independence.
Will the 'liberation' of the Ukraine change any of that.

The Ukraine and it's people have spoken. They want nothing to do with Russia and Russia are invading them now, killing kids and shelling innocent people. Are you completely thick or something?

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

That's sounds like communism to me.
The most likely outcome of what your saying is the benefits of that gas will go to multinational corps, like in so many other countries.
In Australia the Rudd Labour govt tried to get more from the mining countries - Rudd was ousted not long after. Australian politics has been in disarray since and the ability of politicians to make these types of decisions has rendered null and void. Turnbill, Liberal, went there on the environment and got ousted as well.

Eh?

 

[PhilM]

That's sounds like communism to me.
The most likely outcome of what your saying is the benefits of that gas will go to multinational corps, like in so many other countries.
In Australia the Rudd Labour govt tried to get more from the mining countries - Rudd was ousted not long after. Australian politics has been in disarray since and the ability of politicians to make these types of decisions has rendered null and void. Turnbill, Liberal, went there on the environment and got ousted as well.

A sovereign state being able to license and sell its own sovereign commodity isn't communism. The UK isn't following communism by selling our gas.

Well this gets back to what the Ukraine is. Its much more simple to see Britain and Ireland as nations and peoples (oops, maybe not the best example), its not that straightforward with the Ukraine.
The Ukraine will either be in the hands of Western matkets (which are bringing us to extinction) or in the hands of Russia.
My take on this is that ideally Ukraine ends up in a federation of Eastern Europe that is not controlled by the old regime, they take a path away from Soviet authoritarianism that does not lead to the West, literally.
That they forge a path that can teach the West a lesson or two on what it's going take to survive. 'Russians, and 'Ukranians' forging a path together, and in so doing providinguch needed stability to the world.
Genuine question, do you think the UK feels more independent after Brexit? Or does it feel like the world is closing in on that independence.
Will the 'liberation' of the Ukraine change any of that.

All ruled by Putin and his cronies, aye? Well, it would stop the Russian Army from invading a sovereign country and causing untold death and destruction.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

maybe my hot air could help with the gas crisis, got plenty more where that came from ?
All the same, what do you dispute? I'm genuinely interested.

Most of it tbh.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Why do people think the West has a right to take over the world and its resources for its own means and gains.

Is the west taking Russia’s gas and oil or buying it? Russia have been the major supplier of gold to the London market for the best part of a decade. The taking of resources in Russia has been a surgical carve up by Putin and his Oligarch cronies.

You might be warm in your bed bc of Ukraine gas has been taken by NATO but we'll have rendered a poor region of the world much much poorer still. But sure that's what the West has done for many centuries to acquire the wealth and resources it has now.
But we are better than them, right?

NATO don’t take Ukraininan gas. The is an ongoing dispute between Russia and Ukraine (Ukrainian oil and gas company Naftohaz Ukrayiny and Russian gas supplier Gazprom) and this is a part of the problem. It is not a new issue either.

Edit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29521564

Are we back at the Crusades.

This is a joke, right?

Has anyone thought through the consequences of when Eastern Russia and Western US are bridged through NATO. One endless NATO across the world.

A global alliance of agreement and protection for all countries will eventually come if we do not destroy ourselves. The world peace such an alliance would bring would be most welcome.

When the West has run out of dissent from Russia and China, internally the same people, the same human nature that got us there will turn on the dissent of its own 'people'.

Autocrats such as Russia and China are already turning on their own people - under dictatorships the people don’t matter. That is why Putin fears western democracy so much, it is a direct threat to his model of power.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

NATO-Russia relations: the facts

Since Russia began its aggressive actions against Ukraine, Russian officials have accused NATO of a series of threats and hostile actions. This webpage sets out the facts.

www.nato.int

 

[Kev The Rat]

NATO-Russia relations: the facts

Since Russia began its aggressive actions against Ukraine, Russian officials have accused NATO of a series of threats and hostile actions. This webpage sets out the facts.

www.nato.int

is that the NATO website?

 

[Blue Roo]

I don't see the connection between Brexit and the brutal subjugation of a democracy in Eastern Europe.

Let me ask you a genuine question in return: do you think Ukraine is going to have any enthusiasm to forge any sort of federation with Russia after a sustained campaign of indiscriminate violence against their cities?

As to the sustainability of Russian industry, the Soviet Union and Russia are an ecological disaster.

The question was really about whether 'independence' is achievable. UK has just become 'independent'.

To your question- the same could be said of all the people Britain has invaded, yet people have been willing to overcome this. Or should I not forgive the people of Britain and support the IRA against their oppressors.
The rub in all this should be will the Russian people forge change with help of a willing Ukrainians.
The answer will be that West and the US in particular won't let this happen.

 

[Tree13]

there's been a lot of bravado about how the Ukranians are going to give the Russians a hiding mate.

Oh The irony.

*adds "irony" to the list of words and phrases @Kev The Rat appears to not understand, alongside "mutually-assured destruction" and "empathy".