Current Affairs Ukraine

[Frenk]

None of that is is support of Putin.

He is making a completely different point there.

I agree nothing there is saying anything about supporting Putin. We don’t have to like people but come on guys twisting their words doesn’t make us any better.

 

[Blue Roo]

Not so sure, this situation with countries reliant on Russian gas and oil will fast track Europe into renewables and further weaker Russias long term financial future

That's the deluded thinking. We will be reliant on fossil fuels for a lot longer, and they will become more significant not less.

An aside to this is the idea we will all be driving around in electric cars
some countries may achieve this but there aren't enough resources in the world to make the batteries to run the cars for more than a proportion of the world. even with technological advancement this will remain the case. unless we stop using cars.
The point is what we do with our finite resources will only become more important.

 

[Yarrgh]

What are people's opinions on a no fly zone for Ukraine?

I am against it but it's starting to look desperate for the Ukrainian people.

I think that if Russia and the west can agree to an air ceasefire it sensibly de-escalates an aspect of war spreading out like a contagion to neighbouring countries and NATO, but basically sends the message that it's poka poka Ukraine.

 

[Gabagool]

 

[stipe]

I think that if Russia and the west can agree to an air ceasefire it sensibly de-escalates an aspect of war spreading out like a contagion to neighbouring countries and NATO, but basically sends the message that it's poka poka Ukraine.

It will never happen, Airforce is like most important aspect of modern war, chance for Russia (or any warring country) agreeing to aerial ceasefire is non-existent.

On other hand NATO proclaiming no fly zone in active war would be declaration of war vs Russia,

 

[wm02]

Makes sense for them to be involved in peacemaking efforts for a number of reasons. If successful, will boost their standing throughout the world which will be helpful for them post-pandemic.
Not holding my breath as they’ve historically been absolutely useless in these matters

 

[wainy]

It will never happen, Airforce is like most important aspect of modern war, Russia (or any warring country) agreeing to aerial ceasefire is non-existent.

On other hand NATO proclaiming no fly zone in active war, would be declaration of war vs Russia,

I agree, a no fly zone is an absolute no go. Pitting Russian aircraft against nato aircraft would be a disaster and will lead to all out war.

 

[Ruairi77]

Some fair points in there, all I will say is we have Johnson reiterating again and again that we wont get involved - how many of us want to be reminded daily in the news of deaths of civilians that we have no intention of preventing.

I just think this could be filed under 'out of sight out of mind' - like Donbas was.

I get that and disagree.
There are two outcomes here.
Russia occupies Ukraine, western sanctions continue and the inevitable unrest keeps it in the news cycle for ages,
or
Russia retreats and Putin has to quell resentment at home and in other countries in Russias sphere. This might not be making headlines in 5 months abut it's a far less likely outcome. I think a lot of permanent damage has already been done to the Russian economy.

 

[Gabagool]

Wonder if we'll see movement from Johnson this week on this subject.

Abramovich's 100m London mansion could house a fair few refugees

 

[Ruairi77]

apologies if already posted.

 

[Whiteandblue]

I dont think I would have the bravery to stand up like that. Incredible people!

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

That poor Ukranian lady having a go at Johnson over no fly zones. The desperation and hurt in her voice.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...st-berates-boris-johnson-over-russia-response

I get the politics, but it's no less upsetting. Which is what ultimately this all boils down to. Just bog standard everyday Joes and jesses caught up in the bullshit of terrible terrible leaders, power and politics.

 

[Lune1878]

apologies if already posted.

Incredibly brave. Unarmed and putting their bodies in harms way.

 

[Ruairi77]

Incredibly brave. Unarmed and putting their bodies in harms way.

It also seems pretty clear that these troops are, in this case, under orders not to harm civilians.
I get the feeling there would be a whole pile of desertion if they were ordered to open fire.

 

[stipe]

apologies if already posted.

Looks like Russian military police