Current Affairs Ukraine

[COYBL25]

Nobody should be saying that (and I don't think people actually are).

War is horrific and there's definitely been war crimes perpetuated from both sides - and it's why it shouldn't be happening, especially nearly three years after it started. I've seen Twitter accounts that show videos of Russian soldiers being blown up by drones and glorifying it. I've seen that shared by Evertonians. It's sickening. It's all horrific.

All that should be taken into account is that there's factors that have contributed to where we are now, and I'd argue a big reason why the war is still taking place is down to those factors. The US, UK, most of the major European nations shoulder their responsibility for that. Not all of the responsibility. There's nuance to be had, as ever.

Of course, it's easier just to go to the extreme view isn't it.

It’d have been a lot easier to not invade Ukraine in the first place, but here we are with people making thinly veiled attempts to justify and defend Mad Vlad the misunderstood and his meat grinder.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Why aren't they bombing the [Poor language removed] out of Israel? Why aren't you arguing they should be doing so?

Why are you resorting to whataboutery? Is it because you don’t have a valid argument?

There’s an Israel thread if you want to contribute to it, in here people are discussing Russia’s invasion of a sovereign state, along with Russian war crimes. Which you weirdly seem to be supportive of, making you a massive wrong un in my opinion.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Depends who's doing the "hitting back hard" Do you think there'd be an appetite for conscription in the UK?

Don't think there ever has been an appetite for conscription. As Russia and Ukraine have found out. Probably easier in past before modern media. Anyway will come down to, does the West stand up to Putin world view or do we become more like him in his world view to appease him.

 

[Tipp blue]

Don't think there ever has been an appetite for conscription. As Russia and Ukraine have found out. Probably easier in past before modern media. Anyway will come down to, does the West stand up to Putin world view or do we become more like him in his world view to appease him.

The west need to do what they are doing, Russia is been weakened enough already that they pose no threat, don't forget that it's been almost 3 years and Russia are still only around 175 miles from their own boarders, the Idea that they will suddenly get their act together and March across Ukraine and start new wars with other countries is ludicrous. There will be no need for conscription, Polands Army alone could take Russia.. Russia may well end up with some sort of Victory in Ukraine but they'll go no further, Russia are a attritional Army the west have moved beyond that type of warfare.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Good article from Bloomberg following the release of files on Putins assassination targets.

Putin’s Assassination Targets Revealed in Declassified Memo

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence has released a long-classified memorandum shedding light on the targeted killings of Vladimir Putin’s political adversaries, following nearly eight years of persistent public records efforts.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Eidean]

But those bases were there well before, and those nations (Finland aside) were in NATO since 2004.

I’m aware but the question is still exactly the same.

Who do you think Estonia, Lithuania & Latvia were defending themselves from? It still applied in 2004.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The west need to do what they are doing, Russia is been weakened enough already that they pose no threat, don't forget that it's been almost 3 years and Russia are still only around 175 miles from their own boarders, the Idea that they will suddenly get their act together and March across Ukraine and start new wars with other countries is ludicrous. There will be no need for conscription, Polands Army alone could take Russia.. Russia may well end up with some sort of Victory in Ukraine but they'll go no further, Russia are a attritional Army the west have moved beyond that type of warfare.

The conjecture is Trump comes in basically forces Ukrainians into ceding land to Russia in what he will proclaim is peace but in essence a truce. And some point in future Russia goes back for more. It's tried and tested method. The Western response now should have happened in the hours after Russia went into Crimea let alone this second time...

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

What a traitorous rat Catlson is.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Decent bite sized peak at the Gabbard nomination and concerns regarding her association with Russia.

Gabbard nomination puts Senate GOP in a bind

Former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, is on record calling for the U.S. government to “drop all charges” against Edward Snowden.

punchbowl.news

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Powerful speach from Trump ally Sen. Mike Rounds on the situation in Ukraine. He understands.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

With yesterday being Holodomor Rememberence Day this film about the Russia genocide of millions of Ukrainian's is a timely reminder might be of interest to some. Decent political thriller and hard hitting true story about a journalist efforts to cast a light on Stalins horrors.

 

[d34noj]

I am well aware of Latvian history. Again, I have personal experience and fully appreciate there has been a divide. But quite literally half of their population is Russian speaking, and their government has only enacted these rules in the last few years. They have now slackened up on stuff like imports from Russia and allowing travel back between the countries, which they initially restricted after the invasion, because they realised they were just cutting their noses off to spite their face.

There is a long and complicated history between the two countries, and I did not once say there wasn't. But are you comfortable with an EU (or any modern) country acting in such a way towards its own citizens? Because I'm certainly not. And it's sad, and frightening to see such persecution - it shouldn't just be shrugged off as being okay.

The rest of your post, I'm sure you aren't suggesting the US (and by proxy its allies) hasn't interfered with/bullied over countries? What you are, I think very fairly, saying about Russia there can be equally applied to every major nation on the planet.

I've not once said Russia/Putin are blameless. But you saying 'NATO is a defensive organisation' is fine, but you can't then ignore that they did position themselves right on Russia's border - that's not defence. And you know it.

So, they've played a part (the West) - and they knew the battleground wouldn't be their own countries, but a country like Ukraine. The ultimate issue is still Putin choosing to invade, I don't disagree there, but the elements at play here are much more grey than you made them out to be in previous posts. And nearly 3 years on all the Western allies have done is essentially keep it going rather than attempted in any way to bring around peace.

It's all essentially America's fault - in the same way the Palestine/Israel conflict is the UK's. Broken promises, nobody is blameless.

 

[davek]

Good article from Bloomberg following the release of files on Putins assassination targets.

Putin’s Assassination Targets Revealed in Declassified Memo

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence has released a long-classified memorandum shedding light on the targeted killings of Vladimir Putin’s political adversaries, following nearly eight years of persistent public records efforts.

www.bloomberg.com

What a traitorous rat Catlson is.

Decent bite sized peak at the Gabbard nomination and concerns regarding her association with Russia.

Gabbard nomination puts Senate GOP in a bind

Former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, is on record calling for the U.S. government to “drop all charges” against Edward Snowden.

punchbowl.news

Powerful speach from Trump ally Sen. Mike Rounds on the situation in Ukraine. He understands.

 

[Tipp blue]

The conjecture is Trump comes in basically forces Ukrainians into ceding land to Russia in what he will proclaim is peace but in essence a truce. And some point in future Russia goes back for more. It's tried and tested method. The Western response now should have happened in the hours after Russia went into Crimea let alone this second time...

Depends on the conditions of the truce.. Ukraine is seeing the beginning of a weapons manufacturing industry, a demilitarised Ukraine is off the table now for Russia, so unless Russia drop that as a condition then there'll be no truce, and if they do then the West will continue pumping weapons into Ukraine and build up massive stockpiles along with their own manufacturing over the years of the truce.
Russia want a neutral demilitarised Ukraine for easy pickings in the future.. anyone suggesting that the reasons Russia have given for this war are true then they need to get their head checked... land grab nothing more.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

It's all essentially America's fault - in the same way the Palestine/Israel conflict is the UK's. Broken promises, nobody is blameless.

Mearsheimer’s views on realism and the Ukraine situation are widely discredited. It's got sweet fa to do with the US if former soviet states feel threatened by the imperialism of Russia and Putin. They concerns regarding Russian behaviour are proven to be correct.