Current Affairs Ukraine

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

So now you are saying Russia is correct about NATO?

Not at all. But a zebra doesn’t change its stripes. Russian purpose is to cause insurrection and topple Western society. Which is on show presently in Ukraine and then eventually Eastern Europe if they aren’t exhausted first. They only understand one thing power.

 

[davek]

Accurate summary of events from a telegram channel:

What happened at the front was what President Zelensky’s Office feared most—the parties to the conflict got bogged down in a positional war, and Ukraine consistently suffered disproportionately more damage.


Every day, warehouses, rear facilities, troop locations, and infrastructure are destroyed. The Westerners are making up for the loss of supplies and equipment with increasing reluctance. And as we know, no adjustment in military strategy will be able to reverse the course of the armed conflict unless the volume of military assistance to Ukraine increases significantly.

But, according to the results of one recent study, the idea of additional funding (including the provision of military assistance) to Ukraine is already supported by less than 50% of Americans. This partly reflects the weak progress of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in their counter-offensive, which brings very limited results. And this is a dangerous call for the Ukrainian authorities, since the United States provided Ukraine with the lion’s share of military support.

In fact, Ukraine’s counter-offensive was the only chance to receive further help - the Westerners invested quite “seriously” in securing Kyiv, but repeating such an investment is hardly possible.

The US election cycle will start up in earnest soon and Ukraine and backing funding for it is set to be THE biggest foreign policy discussion point. The likelihood of extra funds for Ukraine this side of a possible Biden second term are vanishingly small.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Erm no, I am explaining why Russia which in its present day situation as a much larger state than Ukraine will never walk away from it. It has historical ties that it views as blood.

Obviously Russians will never want to be subjugated into Ukraine. It may seem unfair to you, but that is the way it is.

I am explaining to you the Russian peoples point of view on all this, not what you may perceive to be right or wrong.

There's lots of Israelis think that the Palestinians should have no territory at all. And they've got a massive army. I see your point... Self determination has to go.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Accurate summary of events from a telegram channel:

What happened at the front was what President Zelensky’s Office feared most—the parties to the conflict got bogged down in a positional war, and Ukraine consistently suffered disproportionately more damage.


Every day, warehouses, rear facilities, troop locations, and infrastructure are destroyed. The Westerners are making up for the loss of supplies and equipment with increasing reluctance. And as we know, no adjustment in military strategy will be able to reverse the course of the armed conflict unless the volume of military assistance to Ukraine increases significantly.

But, according to the results of one recent study, the idea of additional funding (including the provision of military assistance) to Ukraine is already supported by less than 50% of Americans. This partly reflects the weak progress of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in their counter-offensive, which brings very limited results. And this is a dangerous call for the Ukrainian authorities, since the United States provided Ukraine with the lion’s share of military support.

In fact, Ukraine’s counter-offensive was the only chance to receive further help - the Westerners invested quite “seriously” in securing Kyiv, but repeating such an investment is hardly possible.

Now Kev... You've been caught out before posting the first random telegram channel you've google translated and not checking the source. Care to link it?

 

[davek]

Considering you have absolutely no regard for the Ukraine's interests or right to exist, I'll skip the part where I ask you what exactly they could reasonably accept after having their cities bombed to bits and citizens murdered en masse in a war they didn't start.

So what do you think would be an agreement that Putin would accept, and would you expect that he would just stick to the terms of any agreement made, like he's so famous for doing so in the past?

I'm sorry, would you care to elaborate on that?

My opposition to the invasion is long standing and I support Ukrainian self determination. The only thing I've ever said is that my support in that respect doesn't come without reservations about the clown running the place and the corrupt Ukrainian political class in general who are the scum who allowed the Azov battalion to live and breathe.

 

[davek]

Czech military chief Karel Rehka told Reuters.

After weeks in which some western military officials have been quoted expressing concern that Ukraine’s summer counteroffensive was proceeding too slowly, the chief of the general staff said during an interview at Czech military headquarters that he was not frustrated by the pace of progress.
“This is how a military offensive looks,” he said. “It is not like a world war two movie. It takes time.”
Ukraine launched its counteroffensive in June and has so far captured only around a dozen small villages, though it says that in recent weeks it has pierced Russia’s defensive line and expects to move more quickly. Moscow says Kyiv’s offensive has already failed.
“In the overall picture, I think there is currently no capacity on either side to reach their ultimate declared objectives any time soon,” Rehka said.
“It won*t last a few weeks, it will last for long, probably. And it’s important that we keep supporting Ukrainians for a long time.”
Rehka, whose Nato member country has contributed ammunition, tanks, armoured vehicles, rocket launchers and howitzers to the Ukrainian war effort, said the Czech Republic still has arms in storage that it could provide.

 

[Kev The Rat]

I'm sorry, would you care to elaborate on that?

My opposition to the invasion is long standing and I support Ukrainian self determination. The only thing I've ever said is that my support in that respect doesn't come without reservations about the clown running the place and the corrupt Ukrainian political class in general who are the scum who allowed the Azov battalion to live and breathe.

What would you say Dave, if it became clear that NATO and the West actually WERE in an existential battle with Russia and the only way out was a crushing Russian victory in Ukraine or alternatively some kind of nuclear war?

What would you want then?

Because I actually believe that is where we are now.

 

[Tipp blue]

I dont think the ambition or logic of Russia is that relevant here.

It's a question of whether you can force a nuclear power into retreat, or if that is even desirable.

That kind of thinking is just going to give countries with nukes free reign to do what they want.. China will be looking at the support that Ukraine is getting and having to question if an invasion of Tiawan is a good idea. Possession of Nukes shouldn't become a free pass to take over other lands without reputations.

 

[davek]

Dave is an imperialist Blairite and needs to be treated as such. His sort have no value for human life. It is quite sickening.

Oh dear. The thought of me being in any way aligned to that war mongering tit is laghable...as any cursory look at my postings on him here would confirm.

No mate, it's you who is more aligned to the interventionist, nation-building madness that is Blairism not me. I want peace now...you want a piece of Russia now.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

One of the deepest embedded multis turning his usual game, the fans, to Ukraine and tag teaming Dave is quite a thing lol

 

[davek]

What would you say Dave, if it became clear that NATO and the West actually WERE in an existential battle with Russia and the only way out was a crushing Russian victory in Ukraine or alternatively some kind of nuclear war?

What would you want then?

Because I actually believe that is where we are now.

I dont believe a direct conflict with Russia is what the west wants. That's a nonsense game that no one wins.

They may want to use Ukraine as a proxy to degrade Russia, but that';s as far as it goes.

What we've seen though is far from Russia being degraded and isolated, they've just shifted to other sources for co-operation, be that China, Brazil, South Africa, other African nations, India or yes even N.Korea.

This is just going to polarize the world until a peace deal is struck...and one eventually will be struck.

 

[davek]

One of the deepest embedded multis turning his usual game, the fans, to Ukraine and tag teaming Dave is quite a thing lol

Mate, this is just not happening.

You need to stop seeing everything in black and white.

The only division for me is war and peace. Choose your side carefully I say.

 

[Kev The Rat]

I dont believe a direct conflict with Russia is what the west wants. That's a nonsense game that no one wins.

They may want to use Ukraine as a proxy to degrade Russia, but that';s as far as it goes.

What we've seen though is far from Russia being degraded and isolated, they've just shifted to other sources for co-operation, be that China, Brazil, South Africa, other African nations, India or yes even N.Korea.

This is just going to polarize the world until a peace deal is struck...and one eventually will be struck.

remember back to February 2022 when just before the tanks rolled into Ukraine the Russians sent a huge trade delegation to China and signed a bunch of deals around "modernization" and networking of Russian factories. How long do you think it takes the Chinese to build an ammunition plant?

This is what NATO and the west is really up against. Russia isn't isolated ... they are allied with the Chinese, Iranians and North koreans ... they have more people than us including an order of magnitude more engineers and STEM workers, better manufacturing resources than we do, more natural resources than we do and less red tape to get things done.

NATO's plan to defeat Russia in Ukraine hinged on sanctions crippling Russia economically ... it didn't work. Russia was supposed to be unable to build missiles or replace tanks and artillery, Russian people were supposed to be deprived and rebellious by now ... sanctions were key ... sanctions failed.

You can argue that NATO can attack Russia with stealth aircraft but even if successful what can Russia do in retalliation? Look at the combat radius of F-35's ... then look at the range and launch points of Russian missiles.

 

[davek]

remember back to February 2022 when just before the tanks rolled into Ukraine the Russians sent a huge trade delegation to China and signed a bunch of deals around "modernization" and networking of Russian factories. How long do you think it takes the Chinese to build an ammunition plant?

This is what NATO and the west is really up against. Russia isn't isolated ... they are allied with the Chinese, Iranians and North koreans ... they have more people than us including an order of magnitude more engineers and STEM workers, better manufacturing resources than we do, more natural resources than we do and less red tape to get things done.

NATO's plan to defeat Russia in Ukraine hinged on sanctions crippling Russia economically ... it didn't work. Russia was supposed to be unable to build missiles or replace tanks and artillery, Russian people were supposed to be deprived and rebellious by now ... sanctions were key ... sanctions failed.

You can argue that NATO can attack Russia with stealth aircraft but even if successful what can Russia do in retalliation? Look at the combat radius of F-35's ... then look at the range and launch points of Russian missiles.

I agree. It's a nonsense to believe the Russian will ever be short of firepower or manpower. That wont happen.

This is a mess for the west. They cant control the actors around the world they need to truly isolate Russia. They'll just ended up polarizing the world into two large camps: those acting as vassal states of Washington and those - led by China - who will resist Washington.

The Ukrainian people are being crushed by those tectonic plates pushing into each other.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

remember back to February 2022 when just before the tanks rolled into Ukraine the Russians sent a huge trade delegation to China and signed a bunch of deals around "modernization" and networking of Russian factories. How long do you think it takes the Chinese to build an ammunition plant?

This is what NATO and the west is really up against. Russia isn't isolated ... they are allied with the Chinese, Iranians and North koreans ... they have more people than us including an order of magnitude more engineers and STEM workers, better manufacturing resources than we do, more natural resources than we do and less red tape to get things done.

NATO's plan to defeat Russia in Ukraine hinged on sanctions crippling Russia economically ... it didn't work. Russia was supposed to be unable to build missiles or replace tanks and artillery, Russian people were supposed to be deprived and rebellious by now ... sanctions were key ... sanctions failed.

You can argue that NATO can attack Russia with stealth aircraft but even if successful what can Russia do in retalliation? Look at the combat radius of F-35's ... then look at the range and launch points of Russian missiles.

1. China are not, to my knowledge, supplying Russia with any munitions.
2. There's a reason China can throw up a factory in weeks. You wouldn't want to work on that project yourself.
3. Russia is no longer losing tanks at above replacement rates, because tanks aren't part of defensive warfare
4. Look at the number of missiles Russia was firing daily a year ago and compare it to now.
5. Why are you comparing planes to ICBMs?