Current Affairs Ukraine

[davek]

Is there anyone the Ukranian government dont blame for their failure to breakthrough with their counter offensive?

Musk is a horrendous individual, but maybe they should look a bit closer to home at their own ministers and miltary leaders stuffing cash down their trousers when it could and should be going to their war effort.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The state of the war

Thoughts from Kyiv

snyder.substack.com

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Putin still trying to get his puppet back into the Whitehouse. It seems insane that any American would be supporting this very dangerous useful fool.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/07/trump-georgia-fani-willis-jurors-dox

 

[LinekersLegs]

Is there anyone the Ukranian government dont blame for their failure to breakthrough with their counter offensive?

Musk is a horrendous individual, but maybe they should look a bit closer to home at their own ministers and miltary leaders stuffing cash down their trousers when it could and should be going to their war effort.

Two things can be true Dave.

That, by not supporting an attack that could have decimated the Russian Black sea fleet, Musk significantly impaired the Ukrainian military at a crucial early point in the invasion.

The Ukrainian military, and their leaders, have made errors during the war.

 

[davek]

Two things can be true Dave.

That, by not supporting an attack that could have decimated the Russian Black sea fleet, Musk significantly impaired the Ukrainian military at a crucial early point in the invasion.

The Ukrainian military, and their leaders, have made errors during the war.

Well his explanation seems reasonable: he did what he did to prevent a probable escalation that would have threatened everyone. Destroying the Black Sea fleet would have been catastrophic and not what the US Government would have wanted for sure. I think (for once) he's made a good call. And I bet the US Government thought so too...maybe they even advised it. You and I and everyone else dont want to know what happened next in that eventuality. It's too frightening to ponder.

But underlying this attack on Musk is what the Ukraine see as Moscow use of Twitter to spread their message. That's at the heart of this. Beyond social media sites like Twitter / X there is no influence for Russia. That's front and centre here.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Four killed, scores wounded in Russian air strikes on Ukraine

Four people were killed and scores wounded on Friday in Russian air strikes on Ukraine, including a deadly attack in which a missile slammed into a police building in President Volodymyr Zelenskiy's hometown.

www.reuters.com

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Side-Stepping Turkey: Using Minesweepers to Increase Allied Presence in the Black Sea

Up until this summer, the Ukraine grain deal was working — for everyone, at least, except Russian President Vladimir Putin. Moscow suspended the agreement

warontherocks.com

 

[LinekersLegs]

Well his explanation seems reasonable: he did what he did to prevent a probable escalation that would have threatened everyone. Destroying the Black Sea fleet would have been catastrophic and not what the US Government would have wanted for sure. I think (for once) he's made a good call. And I bet the US Government thought so too...maybe they even advised it. You and I and everyone else dont want to know what happened next in that eventuality. It's too frightening to ponder.

But underlying this attack on Musk is what the Ukraine see as Moscow use of Twitter to spread their message. That's at the heart of this. Beyond social media sites like Twitter / X there is no influence for Russia. That's front and centre here.

It does not seem reasonable at all to me.


Backing down to Putin’s threats only seem to lead to more escalation, not less.


You even saw it with the coup attempt, when under pressure Putin deals but when he feels safe he retaliates.

Those black sea boats are responsible for huge civilian casualties, this isn’t just about messaging.

 

[davek]

It does not seem reasonable at all to me.


Backing down to Putin’s threats only seem to lead to more escalation, not less.


You even saw it with the coup attempt, when under pressure Putin deals but when he feels safe he retaliates.

Those black sea boats are responsible for huge civilian casualties, this isn’t just about messaging.

Sink the Black Sea fleet and that would have seen a major continental incident. There's absolutely no way Russia would have not retaliated in a major way. Theyld have seen NATO finger prints all over it and escalated beyond what we've seen so far. A 'coup' by a war lord who immediatley bent the knee does not come under the same level of provocation as sinking the Russian fleet.

I'll speak for myself then: there's no way I want this country dragged into an un-winnable war that threatens all of us with annihilation.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Sink the Black Sea fleet and that would have seen a major continental incident. There's absolutely no way Russia would have not retaliated in a major way. Theyld have seen NATO finger prints all over it and escalated beyond what we've seen so far. A 'coup' by a war lord who immediatley bent the knee does not come under the same level of provocation as sinking the Russian fleet.

I'll speak for myself then: there's no way I want this country dragged into an un-winnable war that threatens all of us with annihilation.

I gave you multiple examples of "provocation", or as I would prefer to call it Ukraine defending itself, which did not in fact lead to escalation including the destruction of the flagship of said fleet.

I don't particularly fancy being dragged into a war either but "don't do x/y/z or Putin might nuke us all" isn't exactly a happy place either.

And it is especially unhappy place for Ukrainian civilians who are being massacred by those very ships you think it was a good decision by Musk to save.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Sink the Black Sea fleet and that would have seen a major continental incident. There's absolutely no way Russia would have not retaliated in a major way. Theyld have seen NATO finger prints all over it and escalated beyond what we've seen so far. A 'coup' by a war lord who immediatley bent the knee does not come under the same level of provocation as sinking the Russian fleet.

I'll speak for myself then: there's no way I want this country dragged into an un-winnable war that threatens all of us with annihilation.

Dave, the entire Black Sea fleet is not getting sunk by a handful of drones.

 

[tsubaki]

Side-Stepping Turkey: Using Minesweepers to Increase Allied Presence in the Black Sea

Up until this summer, the Ukraine grain deal was working — for everyone, at least, except Russian President Vladimir Putin. Moscow suspended the agreement

warontherocks.com

That is a really, really daft proposal. Turkey has to be at the heart of the response to this, and it would be profoundly stupid to do something like pushing them into joining BRICS just so someone can claim yet again that they've done something to help Ukraine. What happens if Turkey puts an inspection regime on those ships, or denies their passage through the straits?

The only game in town is the deal they and the UN negotiated. Putin will try to cheat it, and use it as a weapon, but the world has to see him do that and call him out on it. The collective West have to do everything they signed up to as part of the deal and be seen to do it.

 

[McBain]

Seems to me theres one person, and one person alone that needs to be put down for the good of us all.

Lets hope its sooner rather than later and the madness is stopped,

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

 

[Goat]

Seems to me theres one person, and one person alone that needs to be put down for the good of us all.

Lets hope its sooner rather than later and the madness is stopped,

You mean @davek?, right?