Current Affairs Ukraine

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peteblue said:
You live in a dreamworld. How did Germany and France initially react to the Russian invasion, even now Germany just wants a quick end so that it can trade with Russia again. Macron did his grandstanding bit, Italy and Spain have been invisible, Hungary would join with Putin given half a chance to get cheap oil and gas, with only the likes of Poland standing up for what is right. Without the USA and UK, Ukraine would already have been taken over, then it’s on to the next country. Your belief in the EU being able to make a decision militarily is naive in the extreme………
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No pete, I live in an all too real world which has largely been created by people you support.

As for the EU, I think what you are deliberately failing to understand is that the fractured response to this crisis is because the EU doesn't have a unified and effective military force. What we have is NATO, or more precisely an over-reliance on US military power which allowed all of those countries (and ourselves) to cut our military forces to a point where there was clearly not enough deterrent effect.

Or put it another way - why do you think Putin's consistent policy with regards the EU is to split it up?
 
Martin Alvito said:
Kissinger did it to Nixon, one night shortly before he resigned. I'd believe it with respect to Yeltsin.
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peteblue said:
You live in a dreamworld. How did Germany and France initially react to the Russian invasion, even now Germany just wants a quick end so that it can trade with Russia again. Macron did his grandstanding bit, Italy and Spain have been invisible, Hungary would join with Putin given half a chance to get cheap oil and gas, with only the likes of Poland standing up for what is right. Without the USA and UK, Ukraine would already have been taken over, then it’s on to the next country. Your belief in the EU being able to make a decision militarily is naive in the extreme………
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The UK's contribution is way less than you might think. It's about a 10th of what the U.S. have provided, and against GDP, the UK's financial commitment to Ukraine puts us in 9th place.
 
tsubaki said:
No pete, I live in an all too real world which has largely been created by people you support.

As for the EU, I think what you are deliberately failing to understand is that the fractured response to this crisis is because the EU doesn't have a unified and effective military force. What we have is NATO, or more precisely an over-reliance on US military power which allowed all of those countries (and ourselves) to cut our military forces to a point where there was clearly not enough deterrent effect.

Or put it another way - why do you think Putin's consistent policy with regards the EU is to split it up?
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EU couldn’t survive on its own against Sino Russia threat. NATO will be necessary as a deterrent to Eastern Communism for many decades to come. France and Germany let’s face it aren’t motivated or equipped to be any combined threat for defense. You are flattering them too much. Remember Paper Tiger analogy we give Russia due to corruption in France and Germany its motivation. They would be push overs.
 
Nightman said:
The UK's contribution is way less than you might think. It's about a 10th of what the U.S. have provided, and against GDP, the UK's financial commitment to Ukraine puts us in 9th place.
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I didn’t say it was anything like the aid from the USA, but the U.K. provided a decisive lead, which the rest then followed. Without the USA and and U.K. Ukraine would have been overrun. Not the first time this has happened in Europe either…..
 
tsubaki said:
No pete, I live in an all too real world which has largely been created by people you support.

As for the EU, I think what you are deliberately failing to understand is that the fractured response to this crisis is because the EU doesn't have a unified and effective military force. What we have is NATO, or more precisely an over-reliance on US military power which allowed all of those countries (and ourselves) to cut our military forces to a point where there was clearly not enough deterrent effect.

Or put it another way - why do you think Putin's consistent policy with regards the EU is to split it up?
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If Russia didn't have Nuclear weapons I really doubt we'd have put up with Putin for as long as we have. I think the fault for all of this lays with the idiots who declared the end of history at the end of the cold war. What we should have done is to have denuclearised Russia as much as was feasible and dealt with it's chemical and biological weapons stockpiles. Whilst building solid democratic institutions within Russia. Instead chaos reigned and Putin took full advantage with his flavor of capitalism and many Western Companies took part in Putin's looting of Russian assets.
 
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