Roberto Martinez discussion

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Quite the small sample size to declare that the defensive troubles are over.

V Carlisle, a dire Newcastle, Stoke and West Brom as well.
Well, going back to last month we played City and Spurs in the league and conceded just one goal. Maybe that's more to your liking?

We're 12th out of 20 teams in terms of conceding goals in the league (and 4th in terms of scoring goals).

Something to work on and keep working on, but let's not overstate the case. If you do obsess about the goals conceded you should at least give equal prominence to the volume of goals we're scoring too.
 
Let's not pretend 3 seasons isn't enough time to judge a manager.

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While i agree with that on the premise of the last 4 games, like you have said on numerous its not just about the last 4 games (or last 2 seasons).

All due respect we don't know how much of that has been forced upon Martinez with Howard being out - would Howard have continued in goal? I would suggest he would have.
1 goal in 4 games, yep - but we have conceded the most home goals in Europe this season.

That has to be the most worthless stat so far this season. Who cares?

How many goals have we conceded away from home in comparison with teams in other European leagues? How about a comparison of goals scored across European leagues?

I'm sure a range of stats concerning the whole subject of goals scored/conceded away/home in European leagues would give a lot more balanced conclusion of Everton's season.
 
Hold on cowboy to your stetson. 12 goals conceded in 12 away games means the defensive debate is still very much alive and kicking.
It certainly does. If this team were as confident at home as they were away from home this wouldn't be an issue.

Maybe constant screams of "you're kin useless" and "get rid of it you nobhead" doesn't work in our favour?
 
That has to be the most worthless stat so far this season. Who cares?

How many goals have we conceded away from home in comparison with teams in other European leagues? How about a comparison of goals scored across European leagues?

I'm sure a range of stats concerning the whole subject of goals scored/conceded away/home in European leagues would give a lot more balanced conclusion of Everton's season.

Not really, the only stat that matters is 8 wins in 26 games.

A failure to beat the other team in 18 games, with the most talented group of players in Europe.
 
That has to be the most worthless stat so far this season. Who cares?

How many goals have we conceded away from home in comparison with teams in other European leagues? How about a comparison of goals scored across European leagues?

I'm sure a range of stats concerning the whole subject of goals scored/conceded away/home in European leagues would give a lot more balanced conclusion of Everton's season.

Your point was 1 goal conceded in 4 games. Not X amount of goals scored in games.

You bend any statistic towards your aim and agenda - someone talks about the last 2 seasons, you bring in Martinez's first season. So in this case, you talk about 1 goal conceded in 4 - I talk about how many goals we have conceded at home. How many clean sheets can you remember before then??

Its not a worthless stat as our home form is pathetic, but carry on banging the 1 in 4 stat drum - because it helps.
 
It certainly does. If this team were as confident at home as they were away from home this wouldn't be an issue.

Maybe constant screams of "you're kin useless" and "get rid of it you nobhead" doesn't work in our favour?

Possibly your best post ever pal!
100% agree!
I hate every everton fan that goes to goodison! Absolutely hate it! Horrible horrible atmosphere!
We used to be on the other teams back & referees back and people used to comment on how we used to be like that from the off!
Now that has seemed to switch from on the other teams back to on ourselves!
We are imploding at home!

Love the away lids though
 
I'm trying. By god I am trying! But no matter how much I want to believe in him, how much I want him to succeed and how much I want to just feel naturally positive about the man, I just can't help but feel very worried and ultimately negative about the appointment of Roberto Martinez as manager of Everton Football Club. I know there's an obvious divide in Everton fans' views and opinions of this issue, but what about the man wearing the mask like me. The man who's putting a smile on and forcing himself to look and "feel" excited about Martinez, but deep down knows that something just doesn't fit. I know I'm not the only one wearing that mask of jubilance covering a face of concern, worry and gloominess. Having watched the full appointment of Martinez press conference on YouTube, I think it's blatantly obvious that Kenwright is wearing that mask too. Some say this is a time of promise and future glory, with the players we have, the football Martinez' teams play and the fact that we're taking on a manager who won what Moyesey never could (a trophy!), and I'm happy for those people. Others say this is a huge mistake, with a manager that's never progressed a bottom five team which was finishing higher in the league before he took over and now under his reign got relegated, and I'm happy for those people too. At least you openly know where you stand. But those of you wearing the mask of delight covering up a deep down despair, put your hand up and make yourself known, because I know there's more than just me and Blue Bill.
Stan mate, I'm sorry that I doubted you all that time ago. You made a bold call which has been proven totally vindicated over the last 18 months. Please remove that mask, step forward and receive the GOT Crown for services rendered to accuracy of judgement.
 
Building an effective defensive core that works well together takes time, and patience. Moyes is re-imagined now as a Scotch Pulis (largely because of the quality of Martinez's first season, and the clear attacking improvement he's brought, which we all now obviously take for granted). But go back and look at how many seasons it took Moyes before we stopped conceding more than 40 each year. We rely more than most teams on young players, who are more prone to making errors, and whose form tends to be inconsistent. This is normal, if incompatible with the short attention-span of the Sky Sports generation. It's not a coincidence that the defence has weakened this year with so many senior players - Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, McCarthy et al out injured for so long - and with Howard clearly past it. Even Besic, young, and learning, would have added stability had he been able to stay fit longer. Stones, Galloway, and Funes Mori, who has made a very difficult transition far more quickly and capably than was fair to expect, are young and inexperienced. It takes time. Being a smart club means being a patient club.

But isn't that the crux of the matter. 'Building' which takes time with the resources you have or buy in. We seem to be very effective defensive unit away from home with a 'defensive plan'. Sit tight with 2 defensive midfielders, and Barkley dropping a bit deeper and when we get the ball, move it though the midfield towards the attack, with a fullback or both bombing on. And then playing it in the oppositions half to create chances and score goals. 12 goals in 12 aways and half them clean sheets, one defeat drawn 7 and won 4.

Martinez and the players are finding it difficult to replicate our away defensiveness at home. In a way the debate has now become how do we start winning at home. Do we play too gung-ho at home and should just sit back and absorb pressure and hit teams on the counter? Should we as the home team take the game to the opposition and go at them? Martinez has tried to make us more solid at the back with Robles, Coleman, Jags, Mori and Oviedo and we have looked more solid, having conceded 1 in 4 games.

Martinez is building a young squad that can compete and it will take time as inconsistency is the hallmark of being a young player. Whether that is those playing in goal, at the back in midfield or attack.

It would be very hard to find a 'handbook of football expertry' that would show how any particular team, with any set of players, young, old and indifferent, injured or not injured, playing in this or that position, should be achieving this or that. Whether a team'squad is 'under achieving or over achieving' is a big statement to make.
 
See, i think this is what Little Ralphy is talking about.

I'm not saying you don't understand football or tactics, but you do seem to have a habit of isolating one split second of a game and forgetting the rest of it. Yes the goal came from a set piece, but how did they get a set piece? From their right back (a centre back out of position) running unchallenged into a dangerous area and putting in a cross under no pressure. Can the manager be blamed for the ball hitting coleman in the face? No. For how little pressure we put on the ball? Yes.

My own recollection wasn't actually of Coleman shepherding it, i just thought it ran through to their player before Coleman got there, but if you're right would you not say that the manager's philosophy of playing good football and keeping the ball may have contributed to the player's decision to shepherd rather than clear?

Fair enough on the first point I take that on board.

As for the second, no, Coleman has plenty of time to get to the ball and stem the danger but he allows it to trickle down the line and their winger gets to it and then Coleman makes the block.

Not a terrible mistake but again it shows that it isn't just the manager - Coleman made that decision, not Martinez. Just as McCarthy and Lukaku both then completely failed to do the tasks the manager had set them to do at the corner...
 
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