Roberto Martinez discussion

[BlueToff]

Spurs hammered us to be fair and we were really lucky. But people don’t tend to talk about those games, only the ‘unlucky’ ones seem to count.


City at home, again, when 2-0 up and we have a corner why are we sending up the defenders? Why not keep more people back? It was a bit of magic from Aguero but Everton should have managed the game better and kept a solid core even when we had the corner. Then the counter doesn’t happen as we have players back to cover, instead of leaving a massive gap for Navas to exploit.


WBA didn’t need to hit the gaps. They got their goal early from a set piece which we’re also vulnerable from and then were confident enough in their ability to defend as evidenced by the two prior years in the same fixture and sat back and defended. It wasn’t just one of those things either, why we didn’t score, I’ve said this before in one of these threads, it’s because the manager didn’t adapt his game plan and try and stretch the game more to open up space. He just stuck with his like for like changes and expected something to change.


There are some managers that completely shut games down and then work really hard on set pieces and/or fitness to try and gain an advantage. Martinez is the opposite, he almost ‘goads’ teams in to playing an open game against us, and hoping he’ll outscore them. But sides realise they can counter this and that’s why we’re struggling, because they’re not falling for the open game

On the Spurs game, we were the better side when Besic came on. Immediate intensity in our play and we looked threatening. If not for a top save from Lloris it may have been different. So yes while they we got lucky in the first half we improved in the second and a draw was well deserved in the end as we kept a rampant Spurs side at bay.

Again, we were not 2-0 against City mate. We were 1 up and had a corner after City had been putting is under pressure. We needed a goal...

Agree on WBA though I do think the logic with Kone wasn't for it to be 'like for like'. As I said, that change had made us much more dangerous in quite a few games this season so that was the aim. Ultimately it didn't work.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Yes, of course the manager takes the training etc etc and sets the tactics.

But... he is not the one who personally makes the decision in Oveido's mind. He doesn't have some mystic control over Oviedo to make him run 60 yards up field. He doesn't make Lukaku miss that sitter against Norwich or Coleman that sitter against Swansea.

He's responsible up to a point but i'm not having that the players, on occasion, aren't as equally to blame.

But what the manager does do is work with Oviedo and the team in training. 'Right stop, Bry lad why are you back there, the play is up here, get up here and give them the option'. It becomes second nature after a few sessions.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Again, we were not 2-0 against City mate. We were 1 up and had a corner after City had been putting is under pressure. We needed a goal...

We can agree to disagree on the other games.

Apologies for getting the City score wrong at the time, but the situation is still similar, in a two legged game, when you are a goal up at home, you should be ensuring you don't concede an away goal really, because that's massive if you can take that lead then to the away leg. Not committing too many people forward, leaving us exposed if the corner breaks down.

I'll be honest every time we get a corner at Goodison I immediately look to see if we've left enough cover at the back. That shouldn't be the case, we should be on the edge of our seats hoping to score.

 

[hullefc]

One goal conceded in the past 4 games. This defensive debate is getting a bit old hat.

Hold on cowboy to your stetson. 12 goals conceded in 12 away games means the defensive debate is still very much alive and kicking.

 

[Chang Elephant]

I saw this comment on another site.Popcorn for those of us who are not fully paid up members of the pro Martinez club.A lot of home truths spoken here imo.

Good comments in there mate this absolute bell end will take us down sooner or later*

*the self loathing is strong today

 

[Lanolin]

I do agree that we had that issue, but watch our games at home since the turn of the year... that hasn't happened. I cite the turn of the year as I think the Stoke game was the obvious turning point in defensive strategy from Martinez.

Spurs, we stayed tight and rode our luck in the first half, but overall it was a good performance.

City at home was great all-round, bar one counter-attack from them.

Swansea at home - first time this season that we reverted to the Everton of last season for the first half and we were poor. Second half much better but couldn't get over the line - again down to Lukaku and Coleman missing sitters (the players, not the manager)...

Newcastle at home - really good performance but Newcastle were crap. Still a fine effort.

WBA - Their goal came from a mistake from Coleman attempting to steward the ball out of play (nothing at all to do with RM's style), and then McCarthy, Mori and Rom all failing to do simple tasks at the corner. They had one or two counters but didn't exactly 'hit massive gaps'. How we didn't get a goal is just one of those things, ultimately, as frustrating as it is.

See, i think this is what Little Ralphy is talking about.

I'm not saying you don't understand football or tactics, but you do seem to have a habit of isolating one split second of a game and forgetting the rest of it. Yes the goal came from a set piece, but how did they get a set piece? From their right back (a centre back out of position) running unchallenged into a dangerous area and putting in a cross under no pressure. Can the manager be blamed for the ball hitting coleman in the face? No. For how little pressure we put on the ball? Yes.

My own recollection wasn't actually of Coleman shepherding it, i just thought it ran through to their player before Coleman got there, but if you're right would you not say that the manager's philosophy of playing good football and keeping the ball may have contributed to the player's decision to shepherd rather than clear?

 

[Chang Elephant]

Haha no mate actually I write match reports and the like and believe it or not do pretty well for myself. But yeh, I obviously don't have an understanding of the game.

Chris Bascombe is a paid football journalist mate

Being a smart club means being a patient club

That's only smart if your manager is actually up to the job. That's a judgement call and always was, even pre Sky.

 

[Shagster]

Have Everton actually beaten a team 'in form' this season in the Prem?

 

[Shagster]

We've scored over 60 goals playing that exact system this season...

The area we need to improve is obviously in defence, and I think Martinez since the turn of the year has shown a willingness to try and change that and made improvements. Backed up by 2 clean sheets from the last 3 league games.

Whilst I agree,I think the key question is can we bolster the defence and maintain the attacking form - I don't think it's as simple as that

 

[abelard]

That's only smart if your manager is actually up to the job. That's a judgement call and always was, even pre Sky.

Yes, except that post Sky, Ferguson, or Kendall, for that matter, would have been sacked after six months, and people start whining about the manager before even a single fixture, as you'll see in the first post of this ridiculous thread

 

[bluewally]

Have Everton actually beaten a team 'in form' this season in the Prem?

Don't come in here trying to use facts or statistics.
They are utterly irrelevant because <insert excuse A>, <insert excuse B> and <insert excuse C> make it impossible for our best squad in years playing our best football in generations to win games.
The only reason we win any is Roberto's spectacular tactics. Now bow down until you can see your face in those shiny brown shoes.

 

[FisherEFC]

Giving him til the end of the season but the signs are not looking good. I'm pretty sure there would have been Villa fans saying "give Lambert time" and look what happened there.

 

[FisherEFC]

Yes, except that post Sky, Ferguson, or Kendall, for that matter, would have been sacked after six months, and people start whining about the manager before even a single fixture, as you'll see in the first post of this ridiculous thread

Let's not pretend 3 seasons isn't enough time to judge a manager.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Yes, except that post Sky, Ferguson, or Kendall, for that matter, would have been sacked after six months, and people start whining about the manager before he's even managed a single fixture, as you'll see in the first post of the ridiculous thread

@Fat Stan is looking like a genius now though, nearly three years later. Some people see things quicker and are decisive, like Stan.

 

[abelard]

Let's not pretend 3 seasons isn't enough time to judge a manager.

Congratulations on sacking Howard Kendall the year before he went on to win the title