Lowste
Player Valuation: £30m
I hope so, I really do as this crop of players are as exciting as it going to get
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Lowste
Player Valuation: £30m
They could sell a few players on the fringe
If they want him they will get him
Saddens me though
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
This sadly is the point many are trying to make. No one is calling for Martinez to be fired. The reality of the league is that without success two or three of Lukaku Stones Deulofeu and Barkley will not be here in 2 seasons. Managers have a window of time to build a team and get success before the vultures rip it apart.
Martinez has had 2 seasons to rebuild. Now, or at most next, is the season when he needs to give a signal to these players that he can deliver what they want. Doesn't matter if that's fair or not, doesn't matter how aesthetic the football is, doesn't matter 'but Moyes got ten years', Lukaku et al will not care.
That is where a lot of the frustration lies. It's because most people know how good this team could be. Martinez has done brilliantly to bring through Stones and Barkley and bring in Del and Rom. 4 genuine world class players. When will Everton have such a like again? If we can't trouble the European places or win a cup with these players when will we ever?
That is why the fume after Bournemouth wasnt because we'd thrown away a lead, it was because it is another example indicative of this Everton side of us failing to take this opportunity. Chelsea are struggling, top 4 is not a lock out, Liverpool in transition, and we have four world class players fit and in form who would be glad to stay if we can give them anything tangible. Progression to the league cup semi is great but I honestly feel anything short of winning it won't be enough. We also need to ally it with a good league position. Again these are not my minimum expectations, it is the reality of our position. I've already said I'd give a manager between 3-5 seasons dependent on progress. The modern superstar players however are not that patient.
Neither might new owners. It seems only fair that if we fail to satisfy the success criteria of our 4 top players that Martinez would get to continue with their transfer funds in a war chest but is there an argument that if he couldn't bring success with those players is it time to look to someone else to rebuild? New owners may consider that, current owners should also be considering that (not that they would)
I'm sure this will be taken as 'see, he does want Martinez out, burn him', but if you fail to see the realities of the premier league we will be having these conversations about a 'young exciting side full of potential' in another few years with nothing to show for it.
Martinezs grand strategy is/was the right one. It is coming to the tipping point now though. Nicely nicely gradual gradual will achieve nothing now except another cycle of the same. Time for tangible results or we go back to square one again.
Woolly Blue
Player Valuation: £80m
Course we should, and, unless he looks like he's majorly cocking things up, probably quite a few more too
You've got an extra i in failure there by the way. Not like you at all that.
Zatara
Player Valuation: £100m
@The Esk @davek
I think that alot of views on league position and cup progress are centered on a couple of things, chiefly " fear of players leaving" and also "knowledge of Martinez building a team".
Also i find it interesting that some think he should be hitting top 4 or winning a cup based upon "team quality" and the opposite indicator in our case which is "player wages"
Clearly Man City should win both domestic cups based on player wages and we wouldnt get close to top 4.
Also, if we are looking at "individual player quality" then what players do we have who are superior to the current top 4 ? Additionally what depth do we have in the squad behind these players??
Ive always assumed Martinez has a 5 year plan so we have a couple of years left to see what he can build...one would expect in this time to have 4 more players added to the core group (of similar quality and age) as well as some of our u21s coming through.
I think if the players bought into this plan and team ethos for two more seasons either through improved performance, winning a cup, enjoying their football, being part of a growing and exciting team with top quality additions coming in....then theres no reason to expect less than top 4 the way Martinez is going.
Right now though i think its unfair to expect too much as Martinez is effectively rebuilding a team, alot of young players and still a lot of clear improvements needed (keeper/LW/playmaker and depth).
Something special is happening here.
EDIT: just to add, it shouldnt be forgotten that although we may have some "potential world class" players...they are still relatively inexperienced.
I think that alot of views on league position and cup progress are centered on a couple of things, chiefly " fear of players leaving" and also "knowledge of Martinez building a team".
Also i find it interesting that some think he should be hitting top 4 or winning a cup based upon "team quality" and the opposite indicator in our case which is "player wages"
Clearly Man City should win both domestic cups based on player wages and we wouldnt get close to top 4.
Also, if we are looking at "individual player quality" then what players do we have who are superior to the current top 4 ? Additionally what depth do we have in the squad behind these players??
Ive always assumed Martinez has a 5 year plan so we have a couple of years left to see what he can build...one would expect in this time to have 4 more players added to the core group (of similar quality and age) as well as some of our u21s coming through.
I think if the players bought into this plan and team ethos for two more seasons either through improved performance, winning a cup, enjoying their football, being part of a growing and exciting team with top quality additions coming in....then theres no reason to expect less than top 4 the way Martinez is going.
Right now though i think its unfair to expect too much as Martinez is effectively rebuilding a team, alot of young players and still a lot of clear improvements needed (keeper/LW/playmaker and depth).
Something special is happening here.
EDIT: just to add, it shouldnt be forgotten that although we may have some "potential world class" players...they are still relatively inexperienced.
He will only be a failure if when he leaves he doesnt win anything, imagine if people judged SAF on his first 3 seasons.
YNWA
That was what I was trying to say, yes.
Aar_the_Toffees
Player Valuation: £10m
For people saying Martinez is nothing withou Del, in the same way Barca is nothing without Messi, Suarez, Neymar, etc.. Del is part of the team he manages.
TheOldLady
Player Valuation: £5m
He's also the manager that persuaded him to come here
Martinez will get no credit from some until he wins the CL
We arent in the CL mate.
The shouts for koeman won't be too loud tonight !
pretty much nail head there old bean. Macca going off didn't help tbf.
If a jobs worth doing it's worth doing well, you either...
keep on going at them, turn 2-0 into 3,4,5... or at least keep the initiative you had in the 1st half, do your tippy tappy on the edge of their box rather than the edge of ours
or
learn to do 451 (or whatever) properly if you do decide to 'defend' the lead.
He won't play Howard in the Semi Final will he?
Surely not?
Surely not?
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