Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

I agree. I also think there has to be a bit of realism to any discussion. That is often hard as we all wanted to throttle the player, the manager and the cat after Saturday!
We have to accept that no game is safe under Martinez. That does have to be traded off against the idea that we can overturn margins to win. Bournemouth is the reverse of West Brom.
You do have to try and avoid judging managers on a game by game basis. He's not the messiah for winning at a championship team, nor is he awful for drawing at Bournemouth.

We are doing ok this season. Moving forward from last season. There's a lot more to be improved yet mind but lets enjoying having Barkley, Stones, Lukaku and Deulofeu and give a little credit to the manager who has helped with their development.

Nicely put, catcher.

That's exactly what I was driving at. It's exhausting for all involved when the manager's suitability is dragged up after every defeat (or 3-3 'defeat', as happened over the weekend!).

The manager has set out his stall. He's here for the duration barring a relegation fight in the future. Time to use the thread, I'd suggest, to note his decisions/performances on a game by game basis, not use it as a lever to try and gain a hearing for his (very) unlikely unseating.

 

[degsy]

Yep i agree. The 1st goal came due to a sustained period of pressing and getting the ball turned over to us quickly. I understand that can't be sustained for the full match but I thought we were poor 2nd half, in fact it was an exact replica of Bournemouth performance wise. It happens a lot, usually we start off games like that but lately we've been doing quality 1st halves and sloppy 2nd halves.

Delighted to get through though, though as @Eggs mentioned this morning, the team need to realise how potent they are and if they continue to press we will win a lot more games and win them comfortably.

It's simple really, it's the cry of park teams everywhere...play it in their half lads...aka pass it about in front of THEIR, not in front of ours

 

[catcherintherye]

Nicely put, catcher.

That's exactly what I was driving at. It's exhausting for all involved when the manager's suitability is dragged up after every defeat (or 3-3 'defeat', as happened over the weekend!).

The manager has set out his stall. He's here for the duration barring a relegation fight in the furure. Time to use the thread, I'd suggest, to note his decisions/performances on a game by game basis, not use it as a lever to try and gain a hearing for his (very) unlikely unseating.

I never called for Moyes's head for similar reasons. IN the end I turned on Smith as I thought we were going down. I am not sure what sacking managers for finishing half way up the league would do to benefit the club long term.

 

[macdog]

Bright eyes, burning like fire...

That line always reminded me of myxomatosis. Horrible, horrible.

 

[degsy]

That line always reminded me of myxomatosis. Horrible, horrible.

You can have to much of a good thing, even fluffy bunnies

cue Wagner...kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit....

good eating too the auld conney

 

[hullefc]

Martinez is taking us on a journey that I am glad to be witnessing. It may be a roller coaster at times but he is developing a very good side and who knows where we will finish in the league this year. But I can honestly say, for the first time in many a long year, I fear playing no team whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

Never mind decking 4th we are 8 points off the top, start believing lads, it's not even Christmas yet

Can someone ban this fool for bringing such optimisim to this thread ?!
Stay on topic please

 

[bicycleheader]

degsy likes this-ish, sort of, some bits.

We seem to do first halves ok, then play Russian roulette with the sitting back stuff...why not keep on keeping on with what worked.

not definitive I know, but if a team in the 2nd tier (whatever its called now, I still think of it a the 2nd Div ) just fail to do us 2nd half and the 18th team in the prem can do us, no matter what we do in the first half better teams might be all over us as the game goes on...if we keep with the sitting back that is.

Do you think Saturday was down to sitting off them and resting on a lead?

I was frustrated as hell watching it as we all were, and you felt a goal was coming even if not the craziness that eventually happened, but what I noticed more than anything was just poor 2nd half performances by some key players that handed possession and momentum to a team who were not in it at all.

Ross and Kone needed instructions early on in the half to keep it simple and keep possession. Their decision making went awry. Barry, I think would have been subbed if McCarthy hadnt been injured as to my eyes at least he was really struggling. Later it was confirmed he played with a knock.

Little details like the above make the difference in a win or a draw, and can ruin or justify the in game tactics.

I think Ross is having a very good season but has been a little bit off the boil in the last two games which has influenced greatly the second half performances in both (i think we were quiet second half and if Boro werent playing a crap second string they might have gotten back into it) For me this is just the way it´s going to be when we are brave enough to entrust so much responsibility in a young player. Up and down, hopefully more up than down as it has been so far this season.

 

[BernieWright13]

Martinez has been here under three years and you bring up us not winning anything since 95

Moyes had over 10 years and won zip, he also had very good sides in that time

You're right about Moyes - he should've been shipped out for underachievement years before he left. The point I'm making is that if we have ambition then we shouldn't repeat this with Martinez

 

[Lowste]

You're right about Moyes - he should've been shipped out for underachievement years before he left. The point I'm making is that if we have ambition then we shouldn't repeat this with Martinez

That word ambition

A club like Everton ambition needs to be tempered with realism, andvthevrealism is we build a squad of young potential winners and hope we have a season that out does all seasons since the mid 80's. We do not have the money that some clubs have so we have to go with the longevity approach and trust the manager, we have to build a team and a youth policy that will ensure we bring the next generation of players through.
Chasing silverware by sacking managers at every little dip in form is not the answer for us, it maybe for Chelsea's and City.
We trusted Moyes and we should trust Martinez

 

[The Esk]

Mmmm. I'm not sure if it is unrealistically low. Imo it's spot on as a target for a team just gelling into what we can now justifiably say is a Martinez team (mostly his personnel playing his way). Dont forget how hard it is to get to 60 points. Under Moyes we didn't do it all the time (5 times out of the 11 seasons he had here...and most of those five in the low 60's), and that's when we were generally considered 'best of the rest'.

A final appearance and EL qualification are minimum ambitions rather than targets. As you rightly say, we are up against it financially. Any expectancy each season to hit that criteria for a successful season is unrealistic.

I appreciate that I am expecting enormous out performance relative to transfer and wage budgets.

However, how do we hope to retain our best young talent and indeed our manager, should he continue to progress, if we do not meet the targets I suggest?

We have to over achieve to stand any chance of retaining our talent. Each of our young players are balancing playing time, being part of our fine club with trading at a substantial discount to their full earnings potential. Only success on the pitch can bridge that gap.

 

[BernieWright13]

That word ambition

A club like Everton ambition needs to be tempered with realism, andvthevrealism is we build a squad of young potential winners and hope we have a season that out does all seasons since the mid 80's. We do not have the money that some clubs have so we have to go with the longevity approach and trust the manager, we have to build a team and a youth policy that will ensure we bring the next generation of players through.
Chasing silverware by sacking managers at every little dip in form is not the answer for us, it maybe for Chelsea's and City.
We trusted Moyes and we should trust Martinez

Agree with a lot of what you say but:
1.Clipping the wings of ambition with too much 'realism' is negative isn't it?
2. When you say 'other clubs' with more money that us, what about that long list on my original post of of 'smaller' clubs who have lifted silverware since we did?
3. Yes we trusted Moyes for 10 years. Where exactly did that lead us? And wherever it was, does it automatically mean we have to grant Martinez a decade without winning anything?

Sadly its this 'small-time' mentality that keep perpetuating our mediocrity

 

[TheOldLady]

You're right about Moyes - he should've been shipped out for underachievement years before he left. The point I'm making is that if we have ambition then we shouldn't repeat this with Martinez

Here's an idea then

Let's give him more than 2 1/2 years to achieve it

 

[BernieWright13]

Here's an idea then

Let's give him more than 2 1/2 years to achieve it

Could you be a little more precise or do we keep rolling it out for the next 10 years?

 

[helpimonfire]

Bobby is sound. We attack great, Defenders are coming back, we are in a semi. Crap ain't it