Roberto Martinez discussion

[Lowste]

Agree with a lot of what you say but:
1.Clipping the wings of ambition with too much 'realism' is negative isn't it?
2. When you say 'other clubs' with more money that us, what about that long list on my original post of of 'smaller' clubs who have lifted silverware since we did?
3. Yes we trusted Moyes for 10 years. Where exactly did that lead us? And wherever it was, does it automatically mean we have to grant Martinez a decade without winning anything?

Sadly its this 'small-time' mentality that keep perpetuating our mediocrity

We have to be realistic, as a Club we have gone through financially turbulent times which the aim was to keep our premiership status- Moyes completed this and even got us in positions we didn't expect.
As for the smaller clubs, I haven't seen your list but guess Birmingham And Wigan are on it, so that tells you allot.
As for being mediocre and accepting it, sadly until we are given buckets of money we will never challenge it is the way football is played now.
My realistic approach is to trust the manager and let him build something

The other option is to change managers every two years looking for the messiah - not something I would want

So not negative always hopeful

 

[davek]

I appreciate that I am expecting enormous out performance relative to transfer and wage budgets.

However, how do we hope to retain our best young talent and indeed our manager, should he continue to progress, if we do not meet the targets I suggest?

We have to over achieve to stand any chance of retaining our talent. Each of our young players are balancing playing time, being part of our fine club with trading at a substantial discount to their full earnings potential. Only success on the pitch can bridge that gap.

I dont know how true that is, tbh. It would help clinch their loyalty without much persuading, sure.

However, I think that underestimates two things: 1/ the potential for those players to buy into a medium term plan from a charismatic manager who has their full respect (dont forget, McCarthy could have been seduced away by a club like Spurs last summer on probably much better wages); and that's also the reason Deulofeu came back into the fold; 2/ the ability, due to the enormous influx of cash via tv revenue, for medium sized PL clubs to pay wages that would be considered astronomical in European football, only dwarfed by the wages earned by players at about a dozen clubs on the continent (and mostly these clubs are from our PL). In other words, in the grand scheme of things, their wages with us would be top end by industry standards. Some might want more, of course. But I dont think cash is their motivation. And, as we saw in the summer, there's a determination to hang onto our talent from this manager and the club has backed him.

Of course, we'll lose players if we dont show signs of progress in the PL or show very real potential to pick a trophy up (as we are demonstrating this season, tbf).

By the way, my 7th place-60+ point minimum PL / SF of a cup competition target was one confined to this season. Next season that target has to be higher for a points total (even if we are juggling EL responsibilities also) and we need to maintain our challenge in domestic cups.

 

[TheOldLady]

Could you be a little more precise or do we keep rolling it out for the next 10 years?

More precise in what? A time scale on winning a trophy?

Would love to win the league cup for no other reason than piping down the absolute toads on this forum

 

[Goat]

I dont know how true that is, tbh. It would help clinch their loyalty without much persuading, sure.

However, I think that underestimates two things: 1/ the potential for those players to buy into a medium term plan from a charismatic manager who has their full respect (dont forget, McCarthy could have been seduced away by a club like Spurs last summer on probably much better wages); and that's also the reason Deulofeu came back into the fold; 2/ the ability, due to the enormous influx of cash via tv revenue, for medium sized PL clubs to pay wages that would be considered astronomical in European football, only dwarfed by the wages earned by players at about a dozen clubs on the continent (and mostly these clubs are from our PL). In other words, in the grand scheme of things, their wages with us would be top end by industry standards. Some might want more, of course. But I dont think cash is their motivation. And, as we saw in the summer, there's a determination to hang onto our talent from this manager and the club has backed him.

Of course, we'll lose players if we dont show signs of progress in the PL or show very real potential to pick a trophy up (as we are demonstrating this season, tbf).

By the way, my 7th place-60+ point minimum PL / SF of a cup competition target was one confined to this season. Next season that target has to be higher for a points total (even if we are juggling EL responsibilities also) and we need to maintain our challenge in domestic cups.

Top 7 isnt good enough for this group of players.

 

[Osamabindiesel]

Top 7 isnt good enough for this group of players.

This is what keeps Roberto on the fringes of the upper echelon of managers atm. Yes, we are seeing great improvement from several of our younger players, but we aren't getting the results we should be getting. Inexperience has played a part, but that is an excuse at the end of the day. We need to strengthen in the January window, but we probably won't and it will probably cost us a chance at a top 4 spot.

 

[daz4matty]

He got it spot on last night but i wish he would give super kev some proper game time.
We switched off 2nd half again at times but were in control.
Rom's goal showed that we are going in the right direction but he has to get us competing for a europa league place now.

 

[davek]

Top 7 isnt good enough for this group of players.

We can do better with a fair wind behind us; we can do slightly worse with an ill wind blowing against us.

League position will ALWAYS be largely determined by fees and wages paid. We languish about 8th-10th in that respect, we should always recognise that.

Tbh though, and I'm trying to be consistent with what I've always said even when Moyes was here, short of CL qualification I'm not remotely arsed about finishing in whatever spot we end up in between 10th and 5th. It's nowhere. I'm far more concerned that we see better quality, attractive football and that we go all out for the domestic cups, where we do stand a fighting chance of achieving something in.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I appreciate that I am expecting enormous out performance relative to transfer and wage budgets.

However, how do we hope to retain our best young talent and indeed our manager, should he continue to progress, if we do not meet the targets I suggest?

We have to over achieve to stand any chance of retaining our talent. Each of our young players are balancing playing time, being part of our fine club with trading at a substantial discount to their full earnings potential. Only success on the pitch can bridge that gap.

If he didn't achieve those targets would you sack him?

 

[The Esk]

If he didn't achieve those targets would you sack him?

Of course not, but I do believe it would be difficult to retain all our current squad in the circumstances.

Whether new owners would have a different view is difficult to tell, but they make take the view that 3 years is long enough and to retain our most talented they need to bring in a genuine big hitter rather than some one with potential.

 

[Lowste]

Top 7 isnt good enough for this group of players.

Share your pearls of wisdom and tell us what is respectable

 

[Allezfan]

An everton manager should win a trophy. Any manager who leaves this club without having won one has failed. Bingham failed, Lee failed, Harvey failed, Smith failed and Moyes failed.

If Martinez doesn't win a trophy then he's failed too.

But he's within three games of winning one. Should we not play those games before declaring him a failiure?

 

[Lowste]

Of course not, but I do believe it would be difficult to retain all our current squad in the circumstances.

Whether new owners would have a different view is difficult to tell, but they make take the view that 3 years is long enough and to retain our most talented they need to bring in a genuine big hitter rather than some one with potential.

I honestly think that even if we got CL this season we would be looking at 2 players moving on.
I really do think Stones and Lukaku are meant for the top, so once them big big teams come in for you, you go.

I do believe Stones to Barcelona

 

[TheCount]

Mental people talking about the manager and ambition.

THE BOARD.

The only issue with ambition will be when hes had enough of working for people without any further ambition than lining their pockets.

 

[TheCount]

I honestly think that even if we got CL this season we would be looking at 2 players moving on.
I really do think Stones and Lukaku are meant for the top, so once them big big teams come in for you, you go.

I do believe Stones to Barcelona

They can't afford him unless they sell messi / neymar.

 

[The Esk]

I honestly think that even if we got CL this season we would be looking at 2 players moving on.
I really do think Stones and Lukaku are meant for the top, so once them big big teams come in for you, you go.

I do believe Stones to Barcelona

I am slightly more optimistic, and there is still the potential for new owners that would be a complete game changer.

We live in hope.