Moyes vs Martinez: Pounds vs Points

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Iv said it before but I think Moyes was/is the best manager in the country, apart from during a football match. He constantly bottles big games, substitutions and leads.

Martinez won't be at Wigan anymore, he will be at one of the best football clubs in the land. To this day, not many players or managers pass through Everton without it touching them. He will quickly realise defeats arnt excepted like at Wigan, at 39 he is young enough to tweak his style and management to suit. I think it could genuinely work, I am just looking forward to us crossing he halfway line at Anfielf and utd again.
 
Iv said it before but I think Moyes was/is the best manager in the country, apart from during a football match. He constantly bottles big games, substitutions and leads.

Martinez won't be at Wigan anymore, he will be at one of the best football clubs in the land. To this day, not many players or managers pass through Everton without it touching them. He will quickly realise defeats arnt excepted like at Wigan, at 39 he is young enough to tweak his style and management to suit. I think it could genuinely work, I am just looking forward to us crossing he halfway line at Anfielf and utd again.

:lol:

get real
 
yes, its still ridiculous. So he's better than wenger? not a chance

Have you seen Arsenals wage bill? I was never a Moyes fan but you can't deny his working on a budget and improving a squad. He just couldn't manage them on a Saturday because of his negativity
 
Have you seen Arsenals wage bill? I was never a Moyes fan but you can't deny his working on a budget and improving a squad. He just couldn't manage them on a Saturday because of his negativity

he did, but that doesn't make him a better manager than people like Wenger.

Wenger took a side that finished 11th and won them the double inside 18 months.
 
yes, its still ridiculous. So he's better than wenger? not a chance

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that he's better in the transfer market and getting value for money than any other manager in the country.

Ferguson and Wenger do tend to out perform their budgets. As does Allardyce and a few others, but Moyes has done it more consistently than anyone else.

It doesn't make him the best overall manager because there's so much mroe involved to it than that but I think it's a reasonable statement that he's really good in the transfer market and nobody else can match his record in that.
 
he did, but that doesn't make him a better manager than people like Wenger.

Wenger took a side that finished 11th and won them the double inside 18 months.

15 years ago. As I say I'm not saying Moyes is the best, not even close. I appreciate the difficult job he done though, pity as a coach and tactician he is nowhere near good enough
 
I'm talking about the last wigan and the newest Man U manager so this might be better suited for world football but here goes.

Financial figures from this season haven't been released yet so I'll only be looking at 2011-12 and earlier.

Martinez took over Wigan at the beginning of 2009, they were 11th and went onto finish 15th, 16th and 16th over the next three years. In those three years, he spent 23.8 million on transfers, 2.63 million on agents and 116.9 million on wages on wages. He also made 43.75 million on players sold. So all in all 109.78 million or 36.59 million a year.

In the same three years, Moyes had a team who'd just finished 5th twice in a row and went onto finish 7th, 7th and 8th. Moyes spent 29.5 million on transfers, 9.6 million on agents and 175 million on wages. He also made 46.5 million on players sold. So all in all 167.6 million or 55.86 million a year.

So Martinez spent 36.59 million a year and averaged a position of 16th.
Moyes spent 55.86 million a year and averaged a position of 7th.

None of that says anything unless you know how much other teams spent.

In 2009-10, Moyes spent the 14th most and finished 8th. Martinez spent the 19th most and finish 16th.

In 2010-11, Moyes spent the 11th most and finished 7th. Martinez spent the 17th most and finished 16th.

In 2011-12, Moyes spent the 14th most and finished 7th. Martinez spent the 19th most and finished 15th.

So on average Moyes finished 5 2/3 places better than the money dictates. Martinez finished an average 2 2/3 places better.

But that only tells half the story because it doesn't tell the gaps in spending between them and other clubs.

In those three years:

Man City spent 798.4 million or 266.13 million a year.
Chelsea spent 721.7 million or 240,56 million a year.
Man Utd spent 444.55 mil or 148.18 million a year.
Liverpool spent 421.98 mil or 140.66 million a year.
Arsenal spent 350.23 mil or 116.74 million a year.
Spurs spent 257.1 million or 85.7 million a year.
Villa spent 244.33 million or 81.44 million a year.
QPR spent 81.05 million in their single PL season.
West Ham spent 134.4 million in their two PL seasons so 67.2 million a year
Stoke spent 195 million or 65 million a year.
Sunderland spent 192.9 million or 64.3 million a year.
Fulham spent 187.45 million or 62.48 million a year.
Birmingham spent 115.5 million in their two PL seasons so 57.75 million a year.
Newcastle spent 114.32 million in their two PL seasons so 57.15 million a year.
Moyes' Everton spent 55.86 million a year.
Bolton spent 167.04 million or 55.68 million a year.
Wolves spent 145.55 million or 48.51 million a year.
West Brom spent 96.9 million in their two PL seasons so 48.3 million a year.
Hull spent 45 million in their single Pl season.
Swansea spent 44.55 million in their single Pl season.
Norwich spent 44.25 million in their single Pl season.
Blackburn spent 111.77 million or 37.25 million a year.
Martinez' Wigan spent 36.59 million a year.
Burnley spent 30 million in their single PL season.
Blackpool spent 17.77 million in their single PL season.
Portsmouth made money in their single PL season.

Essentially Moyes 55.86 acts like 83 million spent elsewhere and Martinez' 36.57 million acts like 45 million spent elsewhere.

So you'd expect 148% out of Moyes and 123% out of Martinez.

Now just looking at those three years is not an entirely fair comparison. Moyes inherited a team finishing 5th, that was his own and played the way he wanted them to, martinez a team 11th that he'd never worked with before. Also in Martinez' favour wigan's money isn't the same as everton's money as everton has more to offer a player outside wages and if he can get 123% out of wigan he might easily get 150% out of better players like everton's as they'll take to his style better.

And in Moyes' favour at the top end of the table the competition is better. Out performing Wenger and Redknapp is harder then outperforming McCliesh.

Also, pounds per point as by no way the only way to judge a manager. If it was everyone would go for Allardyce who's the best at it. But I'd rather watch a team who play lovely football, win a cup and finish 11th than one who plays like stoke, bottles the cup and finishes 6th.

But in any case Martinez purely in terms of points per pound is better than the average PL manager. He regularly finished 2 to 3 places better than he would if all managers were equally good. At everton however we're used to finishing 5 to 6 places better than that so he needs to up his game.

Very impressive and about what I expected, so thankyou for reaffirming what I thought. I think Martinez' age will be the single biggest factor in his favour. Moyes had 11 years' experience on Martinez. And Moyes is a top quality manager... I doubt we could get a ready-made replacement of his quality. Someone who can grow into and perhaps surpass his mold? I would give Martinez as good a chance as anybody to do that. Really do hope we appoint him.
 
Also, pounds per point as by no way the only way to judge a manager. If it was everyone would go for Allardyce who's the best at it. But I'd rather watch a team who play lovely football, win a cup and finish 11th than one who plays like stoke, bottles the cup and finishes 6th.

[/QUOTE]

THIS.
 
he did, but that doesn't make him a better manager than people like Wenger.

Wenger took a side that finished 11th and won them the double inside 18 months.

i think Wenger is arguably the best manager in the league now that Fergie has retired.
 
i think Wenger is arguably the best manager in the league now that Fergie has retired.

Won as many trophies as Moyes in the last 8 years, finishes about 2-3 places higher in the league and spends 2.5x as much on wages as Everton.
 
Have you seen Arsenals wage bill? I was never a Moyes fan but you can't deny his working on a budget and improving a squad. He just couldn't manage them on a Saturday because of his negativity

I find this type of critisism of Moyes bizarre.

For it to be true that his "negativity" cost us points there would have to be examples of "positive" managers who were leading their sides to more wins on a similar budget.

Yet nobody ever did.

So maybe, what you classify as negativity, is actually pragmatism that wins more points than a positive approach.
 
Everton made more chances than most teams this season. Unfortunately our strikers are simply awful. This whole we don't attack thing is a myth based on previous years when we had a lesser team.
 
Have you seen Arsenals wage bill? I was never a Moyes fan but you can't deny his working on a budget and improving a squad. He just couldn't manage them on a Saturday because of his negativity

If I could have my choice between a 40 year old Moyes, a 40 year old Wenger or a 40 year Old Alex Ferguson Moyes would have been my last choice by some distance.
 
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