Moyes vs Martinez: Pounds vs Points

[Allezfan]

Great post AF
Worth noting that a large part of the reason Moyes has even had as much to spend as he has for transfers/wages, is because of the financial rewards of consistently finishing so far up the league. That was Moyes greatest achievement, probably the hardest thing to do at that level and what Martinez has in reality failed at by getting relegated

Yeah was going to say that. There's 9 million in finishing 7th rather than 16th. Plus whatever you get from europe if you get there.

That's half the difference in spending money right there.

 

[Goat]

Have to say, whatever you think about Moyes, finishing 4th having spent less than every other club in the league with a team that finished 17th the year before minus their best player is one hell of an achievement.

He spent less that year, in relative terms, than any wigan manager was spent in any of their seasons in the top flight

He never quite replicated that season since but you can see why so many people were so impressed by him.

Actually, didnt he infact replicate that Season last Season?

Points wise.

 

[Allezfan]

Actually, didnt he infact replicate that Season last Season?

Points wise.

Points wise he's beaten it four times, I think.

But with much bigger budgets.

 

[Goat]

Points wise he's beaten it four times, I think.

But with much bigger budgets.

Can you give me the points tallys please mate.

 

[Allezfan]

Can you give me the points tallys please mate.

63 this year, 63 cup final year, 65 fiorentina year, 61 4th year and also that year directly after the cup final where we finished 8th.

 

[Goat]

And United had 89 last Season, christ, thats depressing.

 

[Brownie]

Nice one mate, not particularly interesting in the end but worth looking at.

Whilst his overall performance has been slightly better than expected, I find it surprising that Martinez hasn't had a one-off season where they were well above expectations. With his style of play I can imagine them getting off to a good start and cruising to comfortable mid table, regardless of the little money spent, but it hasn't happened.

I also can't really see the board backing him in his first transfer window, so I suspect we'll be looking for a few bargains to bolster the squad and consolidate our current position.

 

[Allezfan]

Nice one mate, not particularly interesting in the end but worth looking at.

God bless you browns.

You're easily the best poster on here.

 

[Brownie]

God bless you browns.

You're easily the best poster on here.

Couldn't resist LOl.

 

[kenada_blue]

'Kinell...He's not Moyes.

 

[kenada_blue]

This thread is a complete JOKE!

Goat sad....

 

[Goat]

Goat sad....

I was just helping the lad along.

 

[kenada_blue]

I was just helping the lad along.

Still not having Martinez then?

 

[Shaun4658]

I'm talking about the last wigan and the newest Man U manager so this might be better suited for world football but here goes.

Financial figures from this season haven't been released yet so I'll only be looking at 2011-12 and earlier.

Martinez took over Wigan at the beginning of 2009, they were 11th and went onto finish 15th, 16th and 16th over the next three years. In those three years, he spent 23.8 million on transfers, 2.63 million on agents and 116.9 million on wages on wages. He also made 43.75 million on players sold. So all in all 109.78 million or 36.59 million a year.

In the same three years, Moyes had a team who'd just finished 5th twice in a row and went onto finish 7th, 7th and 8th. Moyes spent 29.5 million on transfers, 9.6 million on agents and 175 million on wages. He also made 46.5 million on players sold. So all in all 167.6 million or 55.86 million a year.

So Martinez spent 36.59 million a year and averaged a position of 16th.
Moyes spent 55.86 million a year and averaged a position of 7th.

None of that says anything unless you know how much other teams spent.

In 2009-10, Moyes spent the 14th most and finished 8th. Martinez spent the 19th most and finish 16th.

In 2010-11, Moyes spent the 11th most and finished 7th. Martinez spent the 17th most and finished 16th.

In 2011-12, Moyes spent the 14th most and finished 7th. Martinez spent the 19th most and finished 15th.

So on average Moyes finished 5 2/3 places better than the money dictates. Martinez finished an average 2 2/3 places better.

But that only tells half the story because it doesn't tell the gaps in spending between them and other clubs.

In those three years:

Man City spent 798.4 million or 266.13 million a year.
Chelsea spent 721.7 million or 240,56 million a year.
Man Utd spent 444.55 mil or 148.18 million a year.
Liverpool spent 421.98 mil or 140.66 million a year.
Arsenal spent 350.23 mil or 116.74 million a year.
Spurs spent 257.1 million or 85.7 million a year.
Villa spent 244.33 million or 81.44 million a year.
QPR spent 81.05 million in their single PL season.
West Ham spent 134.4 million in their two PL seasons so 67.2 million a year
Stoke spent 195 million or 65 million a year.
Sunderland spent 192.9 million or 64.3 million a year.
Fulham spent 187.45 million or 62.48 million a year.
Birmingham spent 115.5 million in their two PL seasons so 57.75 million a year.
Newcastle spent 114.32 million in their two PL seasons so 57.15 million a year.
Moyes' Everton spent 55.86 million a year.
Bolton spent 167.04 million or 55.68 million a year.
Wolves spent 145.55 million or 48.51 million a year.
West Brom spent 96.9 million in their two PL seasons so 48.3 million a year.
Hull spent 45 million in their single Pl season.
Swansea spent 44.55 million in their single Pl season.
Norwich spent 44.25 million in their single Pl season.
Blackburn spent 111.77 million or 37.25 million a year.
Martinez' Wigan spent 36.59 million a year.
Burnley spent 30 million in their single PL season.
Blackpool spent 17.77 million in their single PL season.
Portsmouth made money in their single PL season.

Essentially Moyes 55.86 acts like 83 million spent elsewhere and Martinez' 36.57 million acts like 45 million spent elsewhere.

So you'd expect 148% out of Moyes and 123% out of Martinez.

Now just looking at those three years is not an entirely fair comparison. Moyes inherited a team finishing 5th, that was his own and played the way he wanted them to, martinez a team 11th that he'd never worked with before. Also in Martinez' favour wigan's money isn't the same as everton's money as everton has more to offer a player outside wages and if he can get 123% out of wigan he might easily get 150% out of better players like everton's as they'll take to his style better.

And in Moyes' favour at the top end of the table the competition is better. Out performing Wenger and Redknapp is harder then outperforming McCliesh.

Also, pounds per point as by no way the only way to judge a manager. If it was everyone would go for Allardyce who's the best at it. But I'd rather watch a team who play lovely football, win a cup and finish 11th than one who plays like stoke, bottles the cup and finishes 6th.

But in any case Martinez purely in terms of points per pound is better than the average PL manager. He regularly finished 2 to 3 places better than he would if all managers were equally good. At everton however we're used to finishing 5 to 6 places better than that so he needs to up his game.

Excellent post mate. Very concise.

I was for him before. Loosely based on an idea of what he has done with Wigan and after analysing his tactics and team selections. Now after reading your post I'm totally sold on him.

Great post.

 

[Marco Materazzi]

Excellent post
(too late for inb4 tl;dr)