Moyes is now my favourite Evertonian of all time

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Artetafan said:
Football isn't about not being relegated, mate. It's not about just doing enough to stay in the top flight. It's about glory and trophies and winning things.

Sunderland and Fulham can be happy with just being here but we're everton we want more than that.
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100% agree mate but I'm sure if you asked the fans of the four clubs you named, Pompey in particular if they'd rather sacrifice their trophies to still be in the top flight it would be a high percentage.
That being said this is one of Moyes' failings, his attitude at the start of every season is "Get to 40 points" which doesn't exactly inspire does it?
I think the lack of any trophies falls firmly at the board though as he is only able to build a first 11 (something he has done tremendously well, finally) and we haven't had enough depth to compete on even two fronts.
 
Ihaters said:
Can you give a reason we should be better than Chelsea, United, Spurs, City or Arsenal on our negative budget?
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I can give a bunch of reasons why we should have been better than KKK'S liverpool, brentford, reading, birmingham, blackburn, standard liege, dinamo bucharest, sporting, oldham, Boro, fulham and shrewsbury. Who are the teams who've actually knocked us out of cups. City never have.
 
Artetafan said:
I can give a bunch of reasons why we should have been better than KKK'S liverpool, brentford, reading, birmingham, blackburn, standard liege, dinamo bucharest, sporting, oldham, Boro, fulham and shrewsbury. Who are the teams who've actually knocked us out of cups. City never have.
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That's a list of shame if there ever was one.
 
Artetafan said:
I can give a bunch of reasons why we should have been better than KKK'S liverpool, brentford, reading, birmingham, blackburn, standard liege, dinamo bucharest, sporting, oldham, Boro, fulham and shrewsbury. Who are the teams who've actually knocked us out of cups. City never have.
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What kind of argument is that? Moyes out because Liverpool have knocked us out? We have knocked Liverpool out so what? Liverpool incidentally who have spent hundreds of millions more than us since Moyes arrived.
You suggesting that a decent manager doesn't succumb to lower league opposition in cups? That United don't lose to poor teams? Is SAF a poor manager because they have lost to just as poor opposition as we have? I don't get it, what are you saying here?
 
Artetafan said:
I can give a bunch of reasons why we should have been better than KKK'S liverpool, brentford, reading, birmingham, blackburn, standard liege, dinamo bucharest, sporting, oldham, Boro, fulham and shrewsbury. Who are the teams who've actually knocked us out of cups. City never have.
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We've been to the cup final with Moyes & every club in the PL can list clubs that they've lost to in cup games that they were favourites in. Thats a piss poor reason to want rid of the man IMHO
 
Ihaters said:
What kind of argument is that? Moyes out because Liverpool have knocked us out? We have knocked Liverpool out so what? Liverpool incidentally who have spent hundreds of millions more than us since Moyes arrived.
You suggesting that a decent manager doesn't succumb to lower league opposition in cups? That United don't lose to poor teams? Is SAF a poor manager because they have lost to just as poor opposition as we have? I don't get it, what are you saying here?
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I'm saying that a cup win isn't the impossible dream you're making it out to be, is what I'm saying.

We're talking about a man described on here as better then Alex Ferguson (who won the league and a european trophy with Aberdeen) as the greatest evertonian of all time (better than kendall who won the league and a european trophy with us) and one of the best eleven managers in the world (better than some champions league winners).

Surely such a man is capable of much much harder achievements then merely doing what Alex McCliesh managed to do?

You can't similtaneously claim him as an elite manager and yet at the same time only expect modest achievments (no trophies, mid table). If he's an elite he should be able to achieve elite things. Not just quite easy things or a bit hard things.
 
Artetafan said:
Football isn't about not being relegated, mate. It's not about just doing enough to stay in the top flight. It's about glory and trophies and winning things.
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You're absolutely wrong. It's about playing the game. If you win things, great - you've got something to crow about, but Everton were not formed all those years ago to "win things," they were formed to play the game (to keep fit in winter for cricket matches, ironically enough).

Sunderland and Fulham can be happy with just being here but we're everton we want more than that.
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Yeah, we do, because we used to be capable of it but these days, unless we get major financial investment, we're not going to win that much stuff. Moyes has been a magician and for me is already an Everton legend - even though he's won nowt - because there's probably hardly a manager in the world who'd have done as well as him in the same circumstances if they'd stayed over the ten years that he did. In the days before Sky invented football in 1992, clubs like Forest, Ipswich and even Everton would get promoted and then win the league the next year. How likely is that now? Why is that?

In 1973 Everton came 17th and were quoted at something like 20-1 for the title the next year. In 2005 they came 4th and were quoted at 150-1. What does that say about modern football?
 
Mcleish got his side relegated so are you seriously suggesting that his mickey mouse cup win makes him superior to Moyes? Behave lol
 
teameverton said:
Moyes has done so much for Everton in the last ten years ,i am convinced if we would have had any other manager we would now be in the championship or worse.
I am amazed other clubs have not come in for him.
My fear is he will leave at the end of the season and if he does it will be like when Alan Ball left.
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he's still not a blue, been here 10 fkin years an all...
 
Artetafan said:
Of course not. But if winning a cup is such an amazingly hard thing to do that it's unreasonable to expect it how come a crap manager like mcleish did it?
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A combination of good draws, luck & determination won them that pot, it has no bearing on Moyes & Everton at all does it?

So why use it as a yardstick to measure him by?

The league is the measure of success for any club as its a true reflection of where you are as a club - any mug team can spawn a cup run eg Milwall
 
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