Martinez Sentiment Poll: In or Out

Martinez

  • In

    Votes: 504 46.4%

  • Out

    Votes: 583 53.6%
  • Total voters
    1,087
  • Poll closed .
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PaulieMc said:
People burying their head in the sand again, it's what our fans love to do.

WE ARE in danger of going down, we're 6 points off the relegation zone with about 3 wins in 3 months, that's relegation form. If the other teams around us in danger like Burnley, Villa and perhaps even Sunderland, kick into gear and find some form in the last part of the season, and recent history suggest several teams in their predicament do, then we could be f*cked unless we do the same.

Which players are likely to leave and why do I think they will? Do you have that short a memory? What did Rooney do? What did Lescott do? What Pienaar do originally? The jibbed us off and went to teams that matched their ambitions. Went to clubs they believed could achieve what they believed we couldn't. Are people naive enough to think Barkley, Lukaku, Garbutt, Stones and a few other promising youngsters are going to stick around long at a club that doesn't look to be going anywhere? No player with any ambition would. If they don't go in the summer there's a very real chance they'd go in January or maybe the summer after next at the latest if things don't improve dramatically in that time.

We have an owner who for his all his tears, cringey clapping and good-heartedness, has no money to give to the manager for transfers that he can raise himself. Everything we spend is from players sales and has been for his entire tenure. Kenwright backed Martinez in the summer with £28m to buy Lukaku? BS. Absolute BS. That money came from the sales of the likes of Fellaini (£27m-odd), Jelavic (about £7.5m), Anichebe (about £6m overall) and a few others. And even then, there should have been some of that left over but we've never seen it. Kenwright, the invisible man Jon Woods and the Tory restaurant owner Robert Earl have never, and will never, put anything into the club from their own pockets because they know they likely won't get it back again. And because there doesn't seem to be billionaire somewhere who thinks we're worth buying it's looks likely to stay that way.

Martinez? For me, he's completely shown himself up this season with awful tactics, delusional thinking and downright arrogant explanations and I want him gone now. I respect the fact that there still seems to be a large section of fans who don't but I won't be told by anyone that I have no right to be extremely PO'ed with him after the mess he's been largely responsible for this season. A team that after last season had realistic ambitions of getting top 4 or winning a trophy, now finding ourselves right down the other end of the table, lost almost twice as many games as we've won, getting humiliated by bang average sides and crashing out of Europe with a whimper.

Spray-painting Goodison Park is a reprehensible thing to do and I hope the ones who've done it are tracked down and taught a lesson. Forgive me though for being more pissed about what I feel are more important issues.

And I'm out.
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TL;DNR
 
davek said:
There's a spectrum of the way to play football, yes. But here's what would happen to any manager coming and taking up some *half-way house* position who tries to "mix it up": the defeats would be blamed on not releasing the ball quickly or directly enough; the victories would be attributed to getting the ball forward and putting the opposition under (as per the Moyes era).

Make no mistake: if there was a step back away from emphasising controlling the ball in a game it'd soon turn into a massive retreat to the comfort zone of booting it long...and then some would even reserve the right to complain about hoofball...even though they'd have abandoned a manager who was the best hope to get away from that type of style.

Never underestimate the full effect of the Moyes era on this football organisation: he basically created an identity that dominated the true traditions of Everton as a ball playing team and made THAT style its signature. The fact that many of those who grew up under Moyes time here want the safety net of that game plan back as soon as Martinez hit bumps in the road is of no surprise whatsoever.

We get rid of Martinez in the short term and we will fall back into old ways. There is nothing surer than that, because the board would be looking to cave in to those desires for a route one manager for an easy life.
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You may be right, I how ever am less certain. But if Martinez can be more flexible Re. the pure philosophy overkill and play with a bit more tempo and intensity and we get more of the Home game Vs Arsenal last season and less of the Hull's etc it will be, by default, the goldilocks option by another name.

If we're still having this conversation by Oct...
 
Prevenger17 said:
I think the big reason I want to stick with him is that we've almost been conditioned to think that 8 months is a long time in football but it isn't. A prolonged dip in form can happen, especially when a lot of your team is on the wrong side of 30. Likewise, with an injection of two or three players and a bit of a clearout in the summer, a team can look entirely different to the one that limped home a season ago.

We're programmed knee-kerkers because we have outlets to opine on magical tactical changes that we can disown at any time. Martinez getting it in the neck for playing Alcaraz, who had a good game against Newcastle, is an example of this. It wasn't tactical naivete that Alcaraz couldn't head a basic ball on the day and, with Stones coming back from sickness and a relegation 6 pointer coming up, most of us would have started him. Gibson didn't play because he's made of snow. I think most of us are aware, on some level, why Besic and McCarthy mightn't work in practice, but Martinez has to actually make that call, so Barry started. Alcaraz should probably have been hooked at half time, but what can you do? He won't start against QPR, I don't think even the most pessimistic of us believe that.

My point is, we don't really know what Martinez has to deal with. I criticise him plenty here, but with the knowledge that I'm a layman and couldn't possibly comprehend the huge amount of pressure and infinite possibilities of football management. We've heard all of the examples (Moyes, Kendall) who had rough seasons and went on to much better things, and ignoring that because of our current malaise will turn us into a club with one or two year cycles of managers, which I definitely don't want. Sacking Roberto now would be a big mistake, and he's got my IN vote until next year at least.
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Most Evertonians will not want to admit it, but we support the manager as the results go. After a win, we love him. A loss, and it's back to another poll. At least I'm like that. I so hope Bobby can guide us into Europe again next season, but based on this seasons results I'm against him for the short term. However unless an offer like Favre or Klopp comes in I can't see him getting sacked.
 
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Woolly Blue said:
... but he will be given that chance. You know that, I know that and everyone who posts here knows that.

For better or worse we ( well, the board ) will give him every chance to show that this bloody awful season was a one-off. In theory, if he rinses and repeats for the first half of next season it will set us back, but in practice it won't set us that far back. If he gets a half way decent start to the season, then he'll get the full season. If he continues with our current form then, chances are, he won't last the whole season.

Worst case scenario is we lose a season ( or half a season ) and we have to rebuild with a different manager. In the long term, that's not actually that awful, it just feels like it to us. Best case scenario, he learns from his mistakes and we get back to something like we were last season. I'm by no means convinced he'll learn, but I reckon it's a chance worth taking.
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But WB if he is given another 1/2 season to fail ( again ) it won't just be that 1/2 season that we will have lost.

How many of our better players will want to stay and play under him next season ? How much of our miniscule budget will he waste ?

We just cannot afford to keep him. He has learnt nothing from his failure at Wigan.

But you are of course correct if , which is now very likely , we avoid relegation this inept board will retain him.
 
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