Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

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This is bloody awful. I cannot evenn imagine what they are going through. Where are the adults in the room!

www.reuters.com

Gaza families ordered south return home, say nowhere is safe from Israeli bombs

The Abu Marasa family are returning to Gaza City, having fled on Friday after Israel ordered all civilians to go south or face bombardment, saying they would rather die at home after an air strike hit the house next to where they were sheltering.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

www.aljazeera.com

‘No water, no blankets’: Gaza evacuees return from inhospitable south

Despite fears of a ground invasion, some of those who fled south are now heading back to the north of the Gaza Strip.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
Martin Alvito said:
There would be a lot more politicians being assassinated by extremists. Peace in our time is very unpopular unless you're attending a beauty contest, which says some unpleasant things about male standards of female attractiveness.

The necessary compromises for peace are even more unpopular, in this day and age. Like the ancient Greeks, our heroes are athletes who never back down in the face of adversity. That lot also fought a seemingly unending series of wars, and I don't think that's a coincidence.
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It will never happen as humans wont change. There is also way too much money involved in war, conflict and violence for it to end.

Its wishful thinking, I know!
 
Martin Alvito said:
They're not. Those hostages are drinking the brackish water, short of food and deprived of proper medical supplies, same as everyone else in there. Those captives are not likely to have nice things to say about the Israeli government, once they learn the why behind what happened to them.

I agree with the read that the German Chancellor is there, and Biden is on the way there, because they're the strongest possible voices for restraint. If your staunchest allies show up and tell you they won't be able to support you on this path going forward, it often gets people to listen. That's the concept behind an intervention.
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So if, as you suggest, Netanyahu might well be restrained from making a ground invasion most thought would be underway by now, what does he do? Just shrug his shoulders and say ok, we’ll stop the aerial assault if you release our hostages? Because if he does agree to step back and those hostages are then subsequently murdered, then the gloves really will be off.
 
Cool_Blue said:
So if, as you suggest, Netanyahu might well be restrained from making a ground invasion most thought would be underway by now, what does he do? Just shrug his shoulders and say ok, we’ll stop the aerial assault if you release our hostages? Because if he does agree to step back and those hostages are then subsequently murdered, then the gloves really will be off.
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War does have a momentum to it, and that momentum renders it very difficult to step back from the brink. It does happen on occasion, as it did in 1962.

Netanyahu has put himself in a terrible spot. He's already perceived as the ultimate architect of this mess. Sending a signal of weakness and ending the immediate crisis will not improve his personal situation. A massacre to no purpose will make his situation much worse, though.

His best move is unpalatable, but without a doubt it is to back off and step down in return for a deal on the corruption charges, whether that's dropping them, a surety that they will be vacated on appeal or terms with respect to any sentencing.

davek said:
Still no response on this...
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Page 229, dave.
 
Tin-Tin said:
It will never happen as humans wont change. There is also way too much money involved in war, conflict and violence for it to end.

Its wishful thinking, I know!
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We've made progress, but it's slow. Human beings are stubborn enough that often the only way to reach them is before their beliefs are fully formed.

Youthful idealism also has a way of turning to adult cynicism as Churchill once observed, because the systems humans build are every bit of that screwed up.
 
Martin Alvito said:
Hardly, dave. If you're a world leader whose citizens are dying by the gross in a war not of your own making, you don't get to be choosy about allies. Doubly so if you can no longer trust your largest ally to deliver the goods, due to their internal political discord. If Ukraine runs out of munitions, the Russians will resume the trek westward. Zelenskyy is in a position where he doesn't have the luxury of having principles other than 'win'. His hand is forced.

The difference between Ukraine and Israel is that the Israeli government created this mess, by using the most authoritarian of tactics in the pursuit of land. You can only dehumanize people on this scale for so long before the tension boils over. What happened ten days ago was deplorable, but it was also inevitable.

If you can't be realistic about the differences between the two situations, I don't know what to tell you, other than that I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you have to realize just how wrong you are.
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It's all well and good saying Zelensky and the Ukraine face an existential threat and he should do anything to avoid it...but to say he should, in your estimation - if the option existed - go along with a "slaughter" of the Palestinians is beyond the pale.
 
What's the body count now for Palestinian deaths...probably about 3x more than the Israelis killed.

This wont stop until there's 20,000 Palestinian lives taken unless the yanks and EU leaders can tell them to call off their pogrom.
 
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