Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

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In other words they starved you of grants and funds and the vote surprisingly reversed - they are using the Irish border imo to try the same tactics!
Bullyboys!

I think your wrong on the border issue mate.

But I would agree with you on some points re the EU, I think the nice treaty was forced on Ireland and we were threatened to accept it.

I also think during the financial crisis Europe shafted us as well. That said they brought the calvery later.

Now don’t get me wrong I think the benefits of being in the EU far out weigh the negative above, while the financial crisis was largely of our own making. But Im pro Europe To be honest.

If everyone in this debate is being honest there are pros on cons of being in or out. Neither side should be polarized, lack crituqe or be dogmatic 100% in ideology.

I do think the U.K. have made a mistake though. But time will tell.

On the border issue, it’s really up to the U.K. to find a solution, May has already signed an agreement stating that NI will remain in the single market if a solution can’t be negotiated and agreed with the ROI.

Time is ticking.
 
Look lads, it’s fairly obvious that no one is interested in sorting out the Border issue as all the debate is about Brexit or remain, with all the Irish lads pushing for remain. Anyway, I hope it all works out how you want it and that relations between the ROI, NI and the U.K. do not suffer as a result. The U.K. including NI is leaving the EU and trade will either continue as it is or will not. However it works out will be what it will be, and I hope that you, we, your politicians and ours take responsibility for whatever happens. As a Brexit supporter I wish both NI and ROI nothing but peace and prosperity.....
 
Lest there be any doubt about Ireland's negotiating position:
(from RTE)

Varadkar quashes May's suggestion of looking at US-Canada style border

'The border between the US and Canada does not provide an example for how to solve the issue of the future border on the island of Ireland after Brexit, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said.

British Prime Minister Theresa May told parliament today that the UK would look at many examples of different arrangements for customs around the world, including the border between the US and Canada.

"That is definitely not a solution that we can possibly entertain," Mr Varadkar said this evening.

Mr Varadkar said he had not heard Ms May's statement in Westminster.

However, he said after visiting the Canada/US border last summer it was clear that it was a hard border with visible infrastructure and customs posts.

Mr Varadkar has also ruled out formal three-way talks between the UK, Ireland and the EU to look at the Mrs May’s Brexit offer.

Mr Varadkar said it was not in Ireland's interests to take part in such talks regarding the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, and that what was needed was for Downing Street to produce more detailed proposals.

Yesterday, Mrs May suggested Mr Varadkar had agreed to form three-way talks to look at the border element of the proposals she outlined on Friday.

Mrs May set out her strategy for negotiations on the UK's future relationship with the EU in a high-profile speech in London.

It will be put to the test this week as negotiations between British and EU officials resume in Brussels.

However, Mr Varadkar said: "There won't be tripartite or three-way talks.

"What will happen is that there will be talks between the EU 27 and the UK, and Ireland is part of the EU 27 and we're much stronger by the way as one of 27."

Mr Varadkar added consultations could take place between the two governments about issues that are unique to Ireland.

"We will of course have negotiations about what could be done to avoid a hard border, but what we won't be getting into is a negotiation with the UK, or a three-way negotiation," Mr Varadkar said.

"That's not in our interest and not the way that this can be concluded."

Mr Varadkar said that he gave Mrs May's Brexit speech on Friday a guarded welcome, but that detail was now needed from the British government.

"What we want is not so much principles and aspirations and red lines," Mr Varadkar said.

"What we want is detail, written down in black and white that can be codified into law and that is what is required."

Mrs May has rejected EU proposals that would see Northern Ireland kept in an effective customs union with the EU as a fallback in case other solutions cannot be found.

She has proposed technological solutions and an exemption from new restrictions on the 80% of cross-frontier trade carried out by smaller businesses.'


So there you have it. Over to you Mrs May...
 
Lest there be any doubt about Ireland's negotiating position:
(from RTE)

Varadkar quashes May's suggestion of looking at US-Canada style border

'The border between the US and Canada does not provide an example for how to solve the issue of the future border on the island of Ireland after Brexit, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said.

British Prime Minister Theresa May told parliament today that the UK would look at many examples of different arrangements for customs around the world, including the border between the US and Canada.

"That is definitely not a solution that we can possibly entertain," Mr Varadkar said this evening.

Mr Varadkar said he had not heard Ms May's statement in Westminster.

However, he said after visiting the Canada/US border last summer it was clear that it was a hard border with visible infrastructure and customs posts.

Mr Varadkar has also ruled out formal three-way talks between the UK, Ireland and the EU to look at the Mrs May’s Brexit offer.

Mr Varadkar said it was not in Ireland's interests to take part in such talks regarding the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, and that what was needed was for Downing Street to produce more detailed proposals.

Yesterday, Mrs May suggested Mr Varadkar had agreed to form three-way talks to look at the border element of the proposals she outlined on Friday.

Mrs May set out her strategy for negotiations on the UK's future relationship with the EU in a high-profile speech in London.

It will be put to the test this week as negotiations between British and EU officials resume in Brussels.

However, Mr Varadkar said: "There won't be tripartite or three-way talks.

"What will happen is that there will be talks between the EU 27 and the UK, and Ireland is part of the EU 27 and we're much stronger by the way as one of 27."

Mr Varadkar added consultations could take place between the two governments about issues that are unique to Ireland.

"We will of course have negotiations about what could be done to avoid a hard border, but what we won't be getting into is a negotiation with the UK, or a three-way negotiation," Mr Varadkar said.

"That's not in our interest and not the way that this can be concluded."

Mr Varadkar said that he gave Mrs May's Brexit speech on Friday a guarded welcome, but that detail was now needed from the British government.

"What we want is not so much principles and aspirations and red lines," Mr Varadkar said.

"What we want is detail, written down in black and white that can be codified into law and that is what is required."

Mrs May has rejected EU proposals that would see Northern Ireland kept in an effective customs union with the EU as a fallback in case other solutions cannot be found.

She has proposed technological solutions and an exemption from new restrictions on the 80% of cross-frontier trade carried out by smaller businesses.'


So there you have it. Over to you Mrs May...

Joey ain't readin all of that.
 
Brexit
EU Brexit adviser deals blow to Theresa May's free-trade proposal


Stefaan de Rynck says single market requires more than mutual recognition of standards



Tue 6 Mar 2018 00.54 GMTLast modified on Tue 6 Mar 2018 07.19 GMT



The advisor to Michel Barnier, the European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator, pictured, has raised a number of objections to points in Theresa May’s Mansion House speech Photograph: Scanpix Denmark/Reuters
Theresa May’s chances of securing a deep free-trade deal with the EU were dealt a blow when Stefaan de Rynck, the main adviser to the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, stressed that the rules of the single market required far more than her chief proposal – a mutual recognition of standards.

May claimed in her speech last Friday that the UK could negotiate a future trade relationship based on mutual recognition of standards overseen by a third party court, made up of EU and UK nominees.

But De Rynck said: “The EU has moved away in the wake of the financial crisis from mutual recognition of national standards to a centralised approach with a single EU rule book and common enforcement structures and single supervisory structures.”

He added that EU rules were clear that the European court of justice could intervene at any point to declare that mutual recognition of standards was undermining the single market’s integrity.

Such principles were neither empty or legalistic dogma, he said, but fundamental to the integrity of the single market and autonomy of the EU.

His remarks, at a special LSE lecture in London on Monday night, are probably the fullest from the European commission since May made her speech and suggest her proposals for a future trading relationship will be dead on arrival, unless EU member states sympathetic to UK interests decide the commission’s interpretation of the single market is too rigid.

De Rynck insisted there was no sign of division among the EU 27 member states or European institutions, warning the UK that “it would be very unwise to break down that unity”.

He also claimed EU businesses, faced by a choice, “are more concerned with maintaining the integrity of the EU single market than any loss of access to British markets”, implying EU business is in no mood to press the commission to compromise in the talks.

He also warned the UK that there was no appetite to extend the talks on UK’s exit beyond the current timetable of March 2019, and if the UK was to seek to rescind its proposals to withdraw from the EU set out out in its article 50 letter, this would not be just be a matter for a UK unilateral move, but require collective response by EU member states.

De Rynck said there was little precedent for third parties, including the UK after Brexit, to secure participation in key EU agencies, such as the European Medical Agency, saying the only three exceptions were countries such as Norway that were members of the European Economic Area Agreement (EEA). The UK has ruled out being an EEA member since it would require the UK to accept the free movement of people.

He also defended the commission from criticism that its proposals, unveiled last week setting out a fall-back position on the future of the north-south Irish border if no other agreement could be reached, represented an over-reach by the EU or an infringement of UK sovereignty.

He said the full legal text prepared by the commission on the fall-back option was necessary since it would have been “complacent for the EU to leave such a sensitive issue as a backstop solution to the very last moment of the negotiations”.


Brexit weekly briefing: get a regular rundown on the debates and developments as Britain trundles ever closer to the exit from the European Union
He pointed out that there had been a joint EU-UK commitment last December to defend the Good Friday agreement, adding the EU 27 was heavily invested in the Irish peace process.

He added it was a fantasy to suggest that it was the EU that was seeking to impose a north-south border, saying such a border was a legal necessity for the UK, and was a product of the UK decision to leave. He said “Who is asking for a border? Brexit is asking for a border”.

He refused to speculate on how long the transition might last, or if it would extend beyond December 2020, saying the transition could only be agreed once the withdrawal agreement was settled".
 
I thought the link, posted by another poster, to the EU’s own technical study regarding new technology models for this particular issue was quite good. Whatever new solution is devised, the technology required is pretty low level and available anyway, most of the work will be on the process employed I would think......

Edit..... http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf

Did you like the bit that said Irish citizens who drive cars would have to register to cross the border.

To quote your good self regarding UK drivers driving in the EU.

"I see the EU are now saying that British car license holders will not be able to drive in the EU without an International Driving Permit. Not that they are trying to punish the U.K. of course...

Also, “Jean-Claude Piris, who served as head of the EU council's legal service for more than 20 years, launched an attack on the Prime Minister in which he demanded "honesty" from the government on Brexit's consequences.

He added that the EU's "doors are still open", hinting at an acceptance in Brussels that the UK could remain in the bloc despite the referendum result.

His comments came in response to the Prime Minister's speech last week where she laid out "hard facts" on Brexit, warning that "no-one will get everything they want" from the negotiations.

While Mr Piris welcomed aspects of the speech, he criticised the government's insistence that the UK will leave the single market and customs union.”

And this of course is why they are doing everything they can to make this as difficult as possible. Aided by the comforting words of our own remainers, the worst possible deal will be offered in the hope that we will reverse our decision......"

According to you it is not on that the EU are insisting on UK drivers having to have something extra to drive in the EU - 'trying to punish the UK'. I would assume that you would be against the EU suggestion in the report that Irish citizens have to fill in extra forms to drive in their own country.

By the way you asked the question about how the EU can 'help solve' the border 'issue'. By your response you seem to like this EU response. Could you post the UK's detailed technology report that 'helps to solve the border issue', seeing that it has been 20 months since May handed in her letter.
 
Look lads, it’s fairly obvious that no one is interested in sorting out the Border issue as all the debate is about Brexit or remain, with all the Irish lads pushing for remain. ....

We are pushing Remain because it's the best for the whole island.

You've gone on long and hard in this thread about the UK not wanting a hard border and that it would be the EU that force it on us for their own agenda.

I've responded to you numerous times to point you to the WTO rules that the hard Brexiteers keep pointing to. Those rules require a border.

It would be helpful if Brexit supporters could just be honest and say they didn't think about Ireland when voting and yes the government are taking the Mick with some fancy dan solution of which there are no details and no precedents.

I still maintain that Ireland will stop Brexit as it's fundamentally at odds with the Good Friday Agreement which is ultimately more important.
 
Joey did you know that there are unelected Lords in the British cabinet?
Never of course I knew, but powers are so weak in comparison to the EU commission which dominates the EU policies, does the House of Lords need change a deffo yes - they should be on a ballot paper ever fixed term Parliment,and voted in democraticly!
 
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