Still up had 40 winks thoughlol
Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit
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Brexit
Technology cannot make post-Brexit Irish border frictionless, says academic
Analysis of various Brexit outcomes concludes some check and stops will be necessary
Lisa O'Carroll Brexit correspondent
@lisaocarroll
Wed 7 Mar 2018 14.34 GMT
Traffic crossing from the Irish Republic into Northern Ireland near a poster protesting against a hard border. Photograph: Paul Faith/AFP/Getty Images
Technology cannot make the Irish border completely frictionless after Brexit, a leading academic in Belfast has said.
Katy Hayward analysed every possible Brexit scenario for Northern Ireland and found that some checks and stops will be needed on the border after the UK leaves the EU.
“Smart border technology is primarily a means of enhancing efficiency. It cannot make a hard border frictionless,” said Hayward, a political sociologist at Queen’s University. “A hard border is not just determined by its visibility.”
The government has put its faith in technology to provide a way of squaring the Brexit circle in Northern Ireland, enabling an open border even if the UK quits the customs union and the single market.
But Hayward’s analysis shows it is regulation, not technology, that creates open borders. Even if HMRC develops a system to allow electronic pre-clearance for customs purposes, it would still not mean an open border.
“It does not obviate the need for inspections,” Hayward said in a presentation that was praised by the EU’s deputy chief Brexit negotiator, Sabine Weyand.
https://twitter.com/WeyandSabine/status/970011048223879168
Sabine Weyand@WeyandSabine
We do like slides here at team @MichelBarnier ... and these seem well done https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/969961465233989632 …
7:00 PM - Mar 3, 2018 · Sint-Gillis, België
Senior figures in the haulage industry in Northern Ireland agreed. “Cameras might be able to recognise a number plate but they won’t be able to inspect what is inside a truck, nor will the freight owner necessarily know what truck his consignment ends up if it transits through a distribution centre,” said Seamus Leheny, policy director of the Freight Trade Association in Belfast.
Hayward tested four Brexit scenarios: remaining in the single market, remaining in a customs union, agreeing a free-trade deal with the EU or leaving with no deal.
She said there were already customs controls at EU internal borders for hazardous waste, counterfeit goods and smuggling. Stops for such matters are generally intelligence-led.
She said in the case of a customs union at least seven other border controls would be necessary, including for livestock and food, cash and capital, and work permits for EU citizens commuting across the border.
The biggest challenge would be agrifood, Hayward said. All livestock movement would have to be approved unless there was full regulatory alignment between the UK and EU. This would be unavoidable given the strict EU regulations around diseases such as foot and mouth.
There would also have to be special arrangements for cross-border commuters who are not British or Irish. Hayward suggests this could affect, for example, a Polish or Spanish nurse living in Donegal and working in the Altnagelvin cancer centre in Derry, which is part of an all-island health service developed in the wake of the Good Friday agreement.
May has proposed mutual agreement on professional qualifications but this has not been agreed yet. This could have an impact on issues such as transport services, said Hayward.
“Take the train from Belfast to Dublin. Will the driver be able to cross the border? The common travel area only affects British and Irish nationals. So if you are an EU citizen you might need to be checked. Similarly, all the food sold on the train crossing the border will be subject to certification checks.”
Technology cannot make post-Brexit Irish border frictionless, says academic
Analysis of various Brexit outcomes concludes some check and stops will be necessary
Lisa O'Carroll Brexit correspondent
@lisaocarroll
Wed 7 Mar 2018 14.34 GMT
Traffic crossing from the Irish Republic into Northern Ireland near a poster protesting against a hard border. Photograph: Paul Faith/AFP/Getty Images
Technology cannot make the Irish border completely frictionless after Brexit, a leading academic in Belfast has said.
Katy Hayward analysed every possible Brexit scenario for Northern Ireland and found that some checks and stops will be needed on the border after the UK leaves the EU.
“Smart border technology is primarily a means of enhancing efficiency. It cannot make a hard border frictionless,” said Hayward, a political sociologist at Queen’s University. “A hard border is not just determined by its visibility.”
The government has put its faith in technology to provide a way of squaring the Brexit circle in Northern Ireland, enabling an open border even if the UK quits the customs union and the single market.
But Hayward’s analysis shows it is regulation, not technology, that creates open borders. Even if HMRC develops a system to allow electronic pre-clearance for customs purposes, it would still not mean an open border.
“It does not obviate the need for inspections,” Hayward said in a presentation that was praised by the EU’s deputy chief Brexit negotiator, Sabine Weyand.
https://twitter.com/WeyandSabine/status/970011048223879168
Sabine Weyand@WeyandSabineWe do like slides here at team @MichelBarnier ... and these seem well done https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/969961465233989632 …
7:00 PM - Mar 3, 2018 · Sint-Gillis, België
Senior figures in the haulage industry in Northern Ireland agreed. “Cameras might be able to recognise a number plate but they won’t be able to inspect what is inside a truck, nor will the freight owner necessarily know what truck his consignment ends up if it transits through a distribution centre,” said Seamus Leheny, policy director of the Freight Trade Association in Belfast.
Hayward tested four Brexit scenarios: remaining in the single market, remaining in a customs union, agreeing a free-trade deal with the EU or leaving with no deal.
She said there were already customs controls at EU internal borders for hazardous waste, counterfeit goods and smuggling. Stops for such matters are generally intelligence-led.
She said in the case of a customs union at least seven other border controls would be necessary, including for livestock and food, cash and capital, and work permits for EU citizens commuting across the border.
The biggest challenge would be agrifood, Hayward said. All livestock movement would have to be approved unless there was full regulatory alignment between the UK and EU. This would be unavoidable given the strict EU regulations around diseases such as foot and mouth.
There would also have to be special arrangements for cross-border commuters who are not British or Irish. Hayward suggests this could affect, for example, a Polish or Spanish nurse living in Donegal and working in the Altnagelvin cancer centre in Derry, which is part of an all-island health service developed in the wake of the Good Friday agreement.
May has proposed mutual agreement on professional qualifications but this has not been agreed yet. This could have an impact on issues such as transport services, said Hayward.
“Take the train from Belfast to Dublin. Will the driver be able to cross the border? The common travel area only affects British and Irish nationals. So if you are an EU citizen you might need to be checked. Similarly, all the food sold on the train crossing the border will be subject to certification checks.”
Brexit
Technology cannot make post-Brexit Irish border frictionless, says academic
Analysis of various Brexit outcomes concludes some check and stops will be necessary
Lisa O'Carroll Brexit correspondent
@lisaocarroll
Wed 7 Mar 2018 14.34 GMT
Traffic crossing from the Irish Republic into Northern Ireland near a poster protesting against a hard border. Photograph: Paul Faith/AFP/Getty Images
Technology cannot make the Irish border completely frictionless after Brexit, a leading academic in Belfast has said.
Katy Hayward analysed every possible Brexit scenario for Northern Ireland and found that some checks and stops will be needed on the border after the UK leaves the EU.
“Smart border technology is primarily a means of enhancing efficiency. It cannot make a hard border frictionless,” said Hayward, a political sociologist at Queen’s University. “A hard border is not just determined by its visibility.”
The government has put its faith in technology to provide a way of squaring the Brexit circle in Northern Ireland, enabling an open border even if the UK quits the customs union and the single market.
But Hayward’s analysis shows it is regulation, not technology, that creates open borders. Even if HMRC develops a system to allow electronic pre-clearance for customs purposes, it would still not mean an open border.
“It does not obviate the need for inspections,” Hayward said in a presentation that was praised by the EU’s deputy chief Brexit negotiator, Sabine Weyand.
We do like slides here at team @MichelBarnier ... and these seem well done https://twitter.com/hayward_katy/status/969961465233989632 …
7:00 PM - Mar 3, 2018 · Sint-Gillis, België
Senior figures in the haulage industry in Northern Ireland agreed. “Cameras might be able to recognise a number plate but they won’t be able to inspect what is inside a truck, nor will the freight owner necessarily know what truck his consignment ends up if it transits through a distribution centre,” said Seamus Leheny, policy director of the Freight Trade Association in Belfast.
Hayward tested four Brexit scenarios: remaining in the single market, remaining in a customs union, agreeing a free-trade deal with the EU or leaving with no deal.
She said there were already customs controls at EU internal borders for hazardous waste, counterfeit goods and smuggling. Stops for such matters are generally intelligence-led.
She said in the case of a customs union at least seven other border controls would be necessary, including for livestock and food, cash and capital, and work permits for EU citizens commuting across the border.
The biggest challenge would be agrifood, Hayward said. All livestock movement would have to be approved unless there was full regulatory alignment between the UK and EU. This would be unavoidable given the strict EU regulations around diseases such as foot and mouth.
There would also have to be special arrangements for cross-border commuters who are not British or Irish. Hayward suggests this could affect, for example, a Polish or Spanish nurse living in Donegal and working in the Altnagelvin cancer centre in Derry, which is part of an all-island health service developed in the wake of the Good Friday agreement.
May has proposed mutual agreement on professional qualifications but this has not been agreed yet. This could have an impact on issues such as transport services, said Hayward.
“Take the train from Belfast to Dublin. Will the driver be able to cross the border? The common travel area only affects British and Irish nationals. So if you are an EU citizen you might need to be checked. Similarly, all the food sold on the train crossing the border will be subject to certification checks.”
Yet another monologue of project fear!
Pity the EU could sort other borders out that are in turmoil like southern Italys borders!
In the absence of any substantive information from Theresa as to how her technological border will look, I’m throwing my hat in with the actual experts. In my eyes it’s hardly a leap of faith and more like common sense.
So all the other EU electronic borders don't t work then?
what are you on about, in one post you are saying the EU should fix their borders and in the next you're insinuating that they work fine.
The border in Ireland and how it is handled is unique situation due to the GFA.
or are you saying they don't work, I'm really not sure.
The EU could come up with a solution in Ireland, but they are deliberately making a issue of it!
Today they annouched frictionless trade all over the UK and for us to keep our financial services but they demand all our fishing waters ?
Game playing again any spanner to throw in the works of Brexit they are getting 40 billion plus off us the cheek of them a spineless currupt organisation!
Here have a read of this and see what the guy who runs Norway's one says.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41412561
Specifically the last two paragraphs. So i don't have to explain how you are off with the everything is rosey picture you paint with Norway and Sweden's one and Italy's
I am involved in this type of tech and have been to meetings and forums across the world in various industries that use it. I have implemented tech like this in several industries also. It's not cheap and it take months just to plan the basics. It would take then another year at least to get it of the ground.
In other words they should already have started their planning and had a plan for this several years ago when they first decided to break ties.
You talk like it is some easy venture that can be put together in mere months and not some complex architecture and system that will take at least a couple of years. It will be expensive and it involves cooperation on both sides.
Norway right now have to still stop about 30% of the trucks and they don't do near what Britain does be it coming in the channel tunnel or across the Irish border combined.
Your government have done nothing to convince people they have a clue how this even works. Its like someone simply told May and she regurgitated it.
Of course there is a bit of fear. For a complex border there would have to be.
Please do some research before you dismiss everything as you embarrass yourself quite a bit here and in the related thread. the fact you openly admit you don't research and don't like people googling tells all really.
they did come up with a solution. Northern Ireland remains in the single market. This is what the majority north and south of the border want. Ya know, democracy and all.
They aren’t fit for purpose in Ireland Joe as we do have quite unique circumstances as have been outlined throughout this thread. An “off the shelf” solution isn’t going to cut it in any practical or acceptable way.
NilSatisOptimum
Player Valuation: £70m
Do stop with obfuscation, it's only been a week since the video resurfaced of Theresa May stating Brexit would lead to a hard border. She was home secretary at the time somewhat an expert on UK borders, I know expert and Brexit are not synonymous with each other, however, this issue hardly comes without warning!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-northern-ireland-customs-union-a8234766.html
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Indeed it would not be ‘off the shelf’, but the system design, technology, process and implementation is not ‘impossible either. This is doable, and the EU know it.......*backs out of thread before they all go on about Brexit and the Tory Government again.........
Hahaha, exactly the opposite of what she is saying now.
They make it up as they go along.
Charlie Sweet
Player Valuation: £35m
What bit is project fear Joey? Name one thing there thats not true..
Theresa May has said there will be no hard border. No cameras. Nothing.
The key thing is that it would need co-operation from both sides of the border and the Norway article gives the example of police forces operating across each other’s border. There would also need to be some level of physical infrastructure on the approach roads to monitor approaching traffic. None of that is ever going to be acceptable in Ireland. That isn’t my border county bluster, it is a statement based on precedent and on the mood of Irish politics now.
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