Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Nothing, I was replying to a poster. Please stop trying to be clever, you’re not and we can all see it......

theres another thread for that stuff. youre not exactly a brainbox yourself are you if you cant understand why there will be a hard border in ireland.......

 

[peteblue]

Sounds like no one really has a clue doesn't it? Logically, you would imagine that if the government had any confidence in this as a solution, as opposed to a meaningless soundbite that hasn't been explored at all, they would be only too happy to say what the tech solution is, who is developing it, and where the technology has been deployed before (and what the results were). You know, basic things you would pull together for the simplest of project proposals.

I thought the link, posted by another poster, to the EU’s own technical study regarding new technology models for this particular issue was quite good. Whatever new solution is devised, the technology required is pretty low level and available anyway, most of the work will be on the process employed I would think......

Edit..... http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I don’t subscribe to the FT, but I’m not sure that the WTO insists on fences and armed guards......

Pete I've linked you to about 4 articles that explains this properly as well as the WTO chief exec explaining it. But you just ignore it!

It's all about the WTO's concept of "most favoured nation" rules and the lowest common denominator.

If the UK operates on WTO rules if has to enforce a hard border. It's as simple as that.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I thought the link, posted by another poster, to the EU’s own technical study regarding new technology models for this particular issue was quite good. Whatever new solution is devised, the technology required is pretty low level and available anyway, most of the work will be on the process employed I would think......

Edit..... http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf

Thanks Pete, interesting stuff. It does render me confused for two reasons however. Firstly, it's us that is leaving, so why is there not a similar document from our government to show they are actually taking back control? Secondly, I thought only last week May had poured cold water on any EU suggestions for the border? We're a shade over 1 year away from this being needed. You must be worried about the apparent lack of activity?

 

[Ron Swanson]

I would think there would be absolute chaos if parliament did as you suggested on this matter. To offer the people of the U.K. a vote, agreed by Parliament, and then to turn around and say we will ignore the result would turn the U.K. into a third world nation.......

pete - with the current administration doing the negotiating, severe and long-term damage to our nation is likely.

Also, as Bruce (and others) have repeatedly pointed out to you our growth since is whilst we are still in the EU. The important thing is what happens when we leave.

And said growth is lower than the EU average and most EU countries in the last 1/4.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Thanks Pete, interesting stuff. It does render me confused for two reasons however. Firstly, it's us that is leaving, so why is there not a similar document from our government to show they are actually taking back control? Secondly, I thought only last week May had poured cold water on any EU suggestions for the border? We're a shade over 1 year away from this being needed. You must be worried about the apparent lack of activity?

Loads of red flags in there for me.

The case study of Norway-Sweden is between two Schengen agreement countries so requires no passport checks. They also said that customs processing takes 3-9mins (or longer in peak times). That's not frictionless.
The US-Canada case study cites times of 15-81mins waiting at some crossings, while the average is up to 27mins to enter the US.
They've basically admitted that it would be impossible to man all the borders and that people who aren't entitled to enter without passport checks have to, of their own volition, enter through the busiest routes that will be manned. Otherwise they'll be considered illegals... that's some detterent.
Enhanced drivers licenses are proposed. Who pays for these?
Pre-clearance systems are proposed as an option. This is a ridiculous inconvenience
Proposes manned borders.
Makes no mention of the political and potentional violent pitfalls.

And they'll manage to build this never-before-tried smart border 2.0 across 200 border crossing points, train staff, and implement special CTA licences all by March 2019... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Ruairi77]

Loads of red flags in there for me.

The case study of Norway-Sweden is between two Schengen agreement countries so requires no passport checks. They also said that customs processing takes 3-9mins (or longer in peak times). That's not frictionless.
The US-Canada case study cites times of 15-81mins waiting at some crossings, while the average is up to 27mins to enter the US.
They've basically admitted that it would be impossible to man all the borders and that people who aren't entitled to enter without passport checks have to, of their own volition, enter through the busiest routes that will be manned. Otherwise they'll be considered illegals... that's some detterent.
Enhanced drivers licenses are proposed. Who pays for these?
Pre-clearance systems are proposed as an option. This is a ridiculous inconvenience
Proposes manned borders.
Makes no mention of the political and potentional violent pitfalls.

And they'll manage to build this never-before-tried smart border 2.0 across 200 border crossing points, train staff, and implement special CTA licences all by March 2019... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yup and any equipment used to enforce the smart border would be rendered useless in days. There's no way either side would put any sort of practical security presence in place to protect the equipment.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Yup and any equipment used to enforce the smart border would be rendered useless in days. There's no way either side would put any sort of practical security presence in place to protect the equipment.

I also makes no mention of costs. I'd love to hear how much they estimate it would cost to errect, maintain, man and secure a hi-tech border system like that proposed.

 

[Ron Swanson]

The Parliment voted 6-1 for that ballot paper lay out prior to the vote - you lost just accept it, trying to back the remain campaign is rediculous - project fear never materialised!
EU - ITALY have just kicked out the pro EU established government!

I love that you call remain arguments 'Project Fear' while massive posters depicting dark-skinned immigrants marauding into the country and talk of half of Turkey resettling in the UK isn't deemed as preying on fear. Most of what you deem 'Project fear' was predictions for after we left the EU. We still haven't done so.

And I think you'll find that in due course we ALL lost... at least those of us who aren't in the upper echelons.

 

[Joey66]

Th

I love that you call remain arguments 'Project Fear' while massive posters depicting dark-skinned immigrants marauding into the country and talk of half of Turkey resettling in the UK isn't deemed as preying on fear. Most of what you deem 'Project fear' was predictions for after we left the EU. We still haven't done so.

And I think you'll find that in due course we ALL lost... at least those of us who aren't in the upper echelons.

The very rich are pushing to remain - our CBI get a grant from the EU - the single market outside trade the tarrifs are phenomenal again the EU prosper - no one has lost as yet - the proposed. Cliffedge after the vote never happened-
The EU are out. To punish us as it is an will be a failing organisation when we leave - let's get off the Titanic before it sinks

 

[roydo]

very rich are pushing to remain

All of them?

Like I dont know many very rich folk, suppose it depends on how rich someone is you think makes them "very rich". Like you, I have benefited from rising house prices, so I guess if I died tomorrow, my estate, house plus pension basically, would combined probably make me a millionaire.

Generalisations about "this group said stay, this group said leave" are utterly pointless mate.

You voted leave, I voted remain. We are both ok asset wise, both intelligent, mature, male and support the same football club. We have far more in common than we have divisions about.

edit. Didnt realise this was the Border thread. Soz Mods, blame Joey.

 

[peteblue]

And said growth is lower than the EU average and most EU countries in the last 1/4.

Italy says no.....

 

[peteblue]

Thanks Pete, interesting stuff. It does render me confused for two reasons however. Firstly, it's us that is leaving, so why is there not a similar document from our government to show they are actually taking back control? Secondly, I thought only last week May had poured cold water on any EU suggestions for the border? We're a shade over 1 year away from this being needed. You must be worried about the apparent lack of activity?

I’ll be honest Bruce I haven’t looked for a U.K. document, I’m sure there will be one, but whether it’s published I don’t know. However the EU seems to say there shouldn’t really be any problems...

Obviously there will be a border, but consisting of what, a line ? Or just a satnav position. I’m not worried at all about the lack of activity as I know it will be sorted. I’m more concerned for those who are worrying that there will be a return to violence....

 

[peteblue]

All of them?

Like I dont know many very rich folk, suppose it depends on how rich someone is you think makes them "very rich". Like you, I have benefited from rising house prices, so I guess if I died tomorrow, my estate, house plus pension basically, would combined probably make me a millionaire.

Generalisations about "this group said stay, this group said leave" are utterly pointless mate.

You voted leave, I voted remain. We are both ok asset wise, both intelligent, mature, male and support the same football club. We have far more in common than we have divisions about.

edit. Didnt realise this was the Border thread. Soz Mods, blame Joey.

Hahahahaha......made me smile anyway.....

 

[roydo]

Hahahahaha......made me smile anyway.....

Why?

edit. Oh, the blame Joey bit. True dat