Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

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Read the posts. I have nothing against the Irish, I want only the best for them. Just like them I want the border to be free and open, unlike them I don’t believe everything is the fault of the U.K. and would also point a finger at the EU, which the Irish lads on here pointedly refuse to do. And, in a nutshell, that’s it.......

Pete I'll say this for the final bloody time.....!

The UK will be the one forcing a hard border as it is a requirement under WTO rules. That's it and I've linked articles from both the WTO and FT confirming this. Add to that it's the UK that have started this whole process by voting for Brexit.

In December the EU and the UK agreed three scenarios for the Irish border. First preference of all was a trade agreement. Second was the UK's high-tech solution (details to be confirmed) and third was the fall back of a customs union (either just Northern Ireland or including Great Britain).
 
I asked a very simple question about what the EU could do to make this easier. I didn’t expect to get an answer and sure enough I didn’t get one. Credit for at least replying. Now perhaps try again and ask what the EU could do to make it easier.......again I expect no answers because you guys daren’t suggest anything that doesn’t attack the U.K.........

I don't believe the question was put to me but I'll answer as best I can anyway.

The UK voted for Brexit and the EU accepted this as the democratic will of the people. From virtually the day after the referendum vote the EU were telling the UK to get on with it and enact Article 50. For some reason only the Tory government knows they delayed nine months.

As the UK started the Brexit process it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that the EU have responded by saying "hang on okay let's all get stuck into very detailed and costly negotiations but you do just need to give us assurances on our three most important issues - Ireland, Divorce Bill and EU citizens in the UK."

The Divorce Bill was settled very quickly. Likewise the status of EU citizens in the UK is mostly settled. Both could have been done a lot quicker.

On Ireland it should never have taken until December for the UK to agree three scenarios for the Irish border. First preference of all was a trade agreement which is stage 2 of the talks. Second was the UK's high-tech solution for which there are still no proper details. I mean how is that possible? The third was the fall back of a customs union.

The three key issues all involve catastrophic impacts on the EU and its citizens caused by Brexit. Surely you'd agree its reasonable to ask for assurances on those first?

Could the EU have agreed to run trade talks in parallel? Maybe but clearly the issue there is that EU citizens either on the Irish border or living in the UK end up getting traded against fish quotas and tarrifs on cars or something.

It takes two to make goodwill work. The UK was never going to throw out its EU citizens so why the delay in agreeing their permanent residency? If you're the Polish or Irish PM you have to protect your citizens.

In summary I think the EU could have offered some kind of parallel run of trade talks but that would assume a level of intelligence and integrity that I'm unsure the UK leadership possesses in order to manage that in tandem with the current talks.

I think the very fact that we are seeing open war in the governing Tory party after a general election was called specifically in order to avoid such a mess says it all and points the finger squarely at London as the prime cause of this mess.

Going into a form of coalition with the DUP to cling on to power was a shameful move by Theresa May. They do not represent the views of Northern Ireland on Brexit (very far from it) yet have a say at the highest table. That's wrong surely?

Back on topic of the thread - if the UK government has a technological solution to the Irish border issue then a) why haven't they shared all the details? and b) why are they back peddling on an agreement already signed in December to find a way forward on the Irish border?
 
I guess we could look at the Swiss-French border. Or Gibraltar. But then both of these were easier logistically given the few border crossings involved and zero threat of terrorism. Even after taking on eu rules and regulations and joining schengen, Switzerland’s border isn’t frictionless.

From an eu perspective, a frictionless border with the uk leaves them open to challenges from the likes of Switzerland and also the eastern bloc countries and the likes of turkey.

Sounds like no one really has a clue doesn't it? Logically, you would imagine that if the government had any confidence in this as a solution, as opposed to a meaningless soundbite that hasn't been explored at all, they would be only too happy to say what the tech solution is, who is developing it, and where the technology has been deployed before (and what the results were). You know, basic things you would pull together for the simplest of project proposals.
 
Why? The ROI of Ireland clear priority is to agree agree a positive outcome on the border situation staying within the parameters and laws of the common market. It’s not just illegal, it just makes no sense when the ROI can have both.

It’s just wishing what you would like to happen really mate, I don’t blame you would be great if the U.K. got their redline issues over the line without having to look at awkward border issues, especially when the government is propped up by the DUP. Unfortunately it won’t happen. The U.K. are is a very difficult position. A new government would have some hope.
It would be great for Ireland too!
Are you more pro EU than UK?
 
why do you refuse to listen............

To what ?. I get it, it is all the fault of the British people and it’s Government, I get that, and totally agree with it. But that won’t fix the border issue. I have asked ‘what can the EU do to help make this easier’ and there has been not a single positive suggestion, not one, every reply just re-tells what we all already know and have accepted, that it’s the fault of the British and their Government. Perhaps you could try asking the same question on my behalf and see if you can get an answer, good luck.......
 
Why? The ROI of Ireland clear priority is to agree agree a positive outcome on the border situation staying within the parameters and laws of the common market. It’s not just illegal, it just makes no sense when the ROI can have both.

And there we have it ‘within the parameters and laws of the common market’. Laws and parameters drawn up when there was not even a possibility of our current position happening, ‘must be adhered to’ because it’s beyond the wit of man to even think about making them fit the problem. Just following orders.........these laws and parameters were not handed down by God in tablets of stone......
 
And there we have it ‘within the parameters and laws of the common market’. Laws and parameters drawn up when there was not even a possibility of our current position happening, ‘must be adhered to’ because it’s beyond the wit of man to even think about making them fit the problem. Just following orders.........these laws and parameters were not handed down by God in tablets of stone......

Your joking surely? They are established by treaties, i dont know how it worked in the Uk but we have had multiple referendums on treaties on whether the people wish to accept them or not, thus the laws of the EU are mandated by the people.
 
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To what ?. I get it, it is all the fault of the British people and it’s Government, I get that, and totally agree with it. But that won’t fix the border issue. I have asked ‘what can the EU do to help make this easier’ and there has been not a single positive suggestion, not one, every reply just re-tells what we all already know and have accepted, that it’s the fault of the British and their Government. Perhaps you could try asking the same question on my behalf and see if you can get an answer, good luck.......
to reason....to others instead of attacking every explanation you are given....its dead boring and repetitive.........
 
It would be great for Ireland too!
Are you more pro EU than UK?

Economically for Ireland a soft brexit would be ideal and vice versa, but a hard one isnt the end of the world just a bump in the road for Ireland on a few fronts.

Only a crazy person would be pro an Irisexit and hitching the wagon to the UKs agony, the Uk is a significant trading partner, but our economy is a lot more diverse and continues to be so, Brexit isnt ideal certainly, but i think the days of Ireland being a satilite to the Uk in economic terms are behind us by about 20 years to be honest.

I have to say mate, i really admire you and Pete's confidence in the Uk, i think its a bit fool hearty, but time will tell.
 
Your joking surely? They are established by treaties, i dont know how it worked in the Uk but we have had multiple referendums on treaties on whether the people wish to accept them or not, thus the laws of the EU are mandated by the people.

Treaties, laws and procedures can be changed. They are man made......
 
Economically for Ireland a soft brexit would be ideal and vice versa, but a hard one isnt the end of the world just a bump in the road for Ireland on a few fronts.

Only a crazy person would be pro an Irisexit and hitching the wagon to the UKs agony, the Uk is a significant trading partner, but our economy is a lot more diverse and continues to be so, Brexit isnt ideal certainly, but i think the days of Ireland being a satilite to the Uk in economic terms are behind us by about 20 years to be honest.

I have to say mate, i really admire you and Pete's confidence in the Uk, i think its a bit fool hearty, but time will tell.
Not just Pete and I voted for Brexit 17.4 million in the UK voted for it too, democracy should win!
 
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