FYI: Talksport Everton Special

[Steve Wigan]

Despite what Steve Wigan says it could be bought by the club at any time.

Yes I'd agree with that. The fact that they are prepared to sell in the open market rather makes Evertons 5 yearly opportunity at preferential rates redundant.

 

[kenada_blue]

I disagree that Newcastle are a bigger club than us. Ashley purchased that club before the new mega TV deal.

Finch Farm is a red herring. It can be bought back any time for £15m or you pay £1.3m a year in rent (as laid down in the accounts). From a financial perspective it's not a big deal either way and does not make a bit of difference to the valuation.

And we have had the club up for sale before the mega tv deal also.

But fact remains they have more assets, are a sole club in a major UK City, and have a 50k seater stadia they can renovate and expand.

Business wise... They are a bigger business

 

[royalblue66]

Can anyone shed any light on this Jaine group ? Apart from them being from India

 

[Billy Liar]

Who are the Middle East buyers?

Do they exist?

 

[Moomin]

Can anyone shed any light on this Jaine group ? Apart from them being from India

They are an Asian based company.

 

[Bungle]

Can anyone shed any light on this Jaine group ? Apart from them being from India

I think they're mostly run by indians mate

 

[njligernj]

To give some context here, does anyone have an idea what the income/profit is expected to be next year once the new TV deal is included? Assuming all things the same, if you add the TV money and we win the 7th place trophy - what's the profit level? I ask because we need to ge to an effective headline ratio of asking price to earnings.

I'd assume (all things the same) it would be around 10-15m? However there is virtually no chance of "all things the same." You can't introduce this much money into an economy and not expect inflation. You could quite easily see the average combined wage+transfer expenditure increasing by 10-20m and wiping out any profit (assuming we decide to retain our position as 8-10th in total spend).

Also you could make an argument that a more reliable indicator of the finances would be revenue - operating costs/wages and NOT including player sales/purchases. I believe every figure we have in our heads from past years would include these transactions.

For example if we sold Fellaini, didn't invest any of the money, then turned around and asked for a purchase price for a company which makes "50m profit p/a" (Fellaini fee + TV money) that would be a massively misleading price. We don't have multiple assets worth that much and even if we did selling them all off would likely reduce our income. (Or, as ludicrous as this sounds, on the other hand if we decided to have a net spend of 50m to make a CL push that doesn't mean a new owner should expect us to lose 50m every year -- that was a variable decision which doesn't reflect the "baseline" revenue and expenses of the club.)

So if we're making these estimates based on financials which included sales (i.e. we would have lost [x]m if we hadn't sold Arteta) that gives us a somewhat misleading number. Despite what a few PR releases suggest we have serviced debts and the banks with transfer income. We'd have more debt today if we weren't a selling club -- one would hope a new owner wouldn't want us to continue down the road of selling players to please the banks so previous years where we broke even because we sold a player are years which were really losses by a team which doesn't sell its best players.

If I were buying the club and thinking "I wouldn't have sold Rooney, Lescott, Arteta etc" I'd want to know where the financials for those years (and future years) would have finished without that income. Granted we might have more income from better league finishes in that scenario so it might all wash out in the end but that's the (very basic) figure I'd want to see as a buyer.

On the assets side there is the players (who are worth between £100m and £150m) but I don't know how a football club as a business values these assets?

They'll typically include them on a sliding scale based on how long they have left on their contracts so I'd suggest whatever figures TW had are on the high side. 75m maybe?

There is also a significant cost associated with those assets (if you don't pay their wages you might not realize those fees ... see Rangers) and the variable of income from different league finishing positions/cup runs to consider. Difficult to estimate all of those without specifics.

Equally you'd have to be careful to find out the net annual profit stripping out all debt costs - 'cos if you're then going to pay off the debt as part of the deal the previous debt costs are immaterial.

True but not sure if you mean the buyer would want to know that (which of course they would) or if it would impact the price of the club (which I don't think it should). You'd want to know that for certain considerations but financially the buyer is taking a hit in paying off the debt (not just in the cost of the 50m but in his expecting earnings were he to invest that 50m elsewhere). I'd want to know the figures obviously to know how much income we'd have but I wouldn't accept factoring the "new" profit figure into the asking price -- it's none of their business whether I pay off the loan or continue to service the debt. You might as well ask for a higher price on the basis that "you're smarter than us and will do better and therefore make more money than we do." The debt is an obligation I am acquiring with the club -- you can't value the club based on that not existing (although they do appear to have done just that).

 

[magicjuan]

Can anyone shed any light on this Jaine group ? Apart from them being from India

They headed a consortium that appeared to be a part of a much bigger plan for redevelopment, there were a lot of different companies that specialised in different aspects of infrastructure from pipe laying, construction, telecommunications etc.

Everything you needed for a massive, and I mean massive, redevelopment of an area was involved.

There were conflicting reports at the time that the redevelopment was driving the interest and the club was an afterthought, or that the club was the primary interest that expanded into redeveloping the whole area.

Judging by local interests I would personally say the club was looked at first and the redevelopment followed, but enough to have global financiers involved to fund the entire thing.

Jain group sent all their top bods to at least two of the meetings, nice people, very pleasant.

 

[royalblue66]

I think they're mostly run by indians mate

Really.

 

[Bungle]

Really.

No mate

 

[magicjuan]

Like I've said mate I know you know a lot of details , in relation to interested parties more than anyone I've encountered on everton forums

I've had this debate for I don't get why blues who are opposed to kenwright believe there is no interest that basically accepts his 'nobody out there' stuff which is patently untrue . When there are rumours or links they say "kenwright spin" , so do they believe nobody wants us ? I just can't reconcile that mentality , I get it from bills supporters but not those who want change.

I'll say it again if there are figures quoted and rumours of interest that never moves to more than that , how does it help bill ? It's a stick to beat him (probably correctly ) with .

I think where he is stuck is existing covenants on debts, length of mortgages, cost of buying out contracts on almost every single aspect of the business.
He did all these to retain control of his train set and I think at the moment he is stuck. Possibly wants shut but for him to pay back what he owes and for new owners to be free to manage the business their way would take dealing with the problems of existing contracts, perhaps.
Basically Bill playing arrogant hard ball in the past has bitten him right on the arse now

 

[royalblue66]

Thank you,very enlightening

 

[Carlito]

I certainly don't think Steve is a club staffer he just has perhaps different opinions to some of us and I think he perhaps looks beyond the obvious sometimes.

Steve once attempted to rationalise Kenwright's penchant for promising money that never materialises by referring us to the great man's stage production of Miss Saigon. He explained how towards the end of the show an actual working helicopter doesn't descend onto the stage, and so the audience must suspend disbelief in order to enjoy it. I believe the point of the story was that in Kenwright's mind - one which is apparently incapable of differentiating between fantasy and reality - the Fortress Sports Fund/Kings Dock money/effectively free world-class stadium could all be there if we'd all just wish upon a star.

It was far and away the funniest thing I've ever seen written on Blue Kipper. I hope for his sake he's a paid employee of Everton Football Club or a fabulous internet troll, because I'd hate to think he's as crazy as his posts suggest.

 

[fozzy]

They headed a consortium that appeared to be a part of a much bigger plan for redevelopment, there were a lot of different companies that specialised in different aspects of infrastructure from pipe laying, construction, telecommunications etc.

Everything you needed for a massive, and I mean massive, redevelopment of an area was involved.

There were conflicting reports at the time that the redevelopment was driving the interest and the club was an afterthought, or that the club was the primary interest that expanded into redeveloping the whole area.

Judging by local interests I would personally say the club was looked at first and the redevelopment followed, but enough to have global financiers involved to fund the entire thing.

Jain group sent all their top bods to at least two of the meetings, nice people, very pleasant.

do you know why they walked away mate?

 

[magicjuan]

do you know why they walked away mate?

Price 'fluctuation' in value
(was what I was told, they had all sorts backing the scheme, all sorts, local, national and international)