Everton: we look an unhappy camp

[davek]

That's a huge exaggeration of our current position. We're not playing well, and too many players are not performing at their best (forget whether their best is good enough for a minute).

Whilst we are struggling, it's way too early to say we've lost our way. As I said last night, we are 7th, we'd like to be higher but that's where we are.

We are 12 games into a 3 year project, the period between now and the start of next season will tell us whether (i) Koeman can deliver (ii) Walsh and his team delivers, and (iii) most importantly the Board delivers.

There's a series of disconnections: the manager isn't in synch with the club; the players aren't in synch with the manager's tactics; the fans aren't in synch with the manager, players or owners....and when they start booing at HT and FT 12 games into a new manager's reign you have to acknowledge that the strains are showing.

Of course, you can minimise or downgrade that problem and point to the small amount of time that's elapsed, but it's that short period which is most concerning of all. There's something disturbing that such disgruntlement exists so early on. We have lost our way here, there's no doubt about it. Good results put it to bed, but the trend is not going in that direction.

 

[kithnou]

As I've said numerous times, Pep couldn't do much better with this squad. While I have never been warm towards Koeman, we can't be talking of removing him. That's ludicrous.
There are 15 players that need removing first.

 

[davek]

Ive discussed it, not once have I said we are playing great and that im happy with our form.

I just think that to be having a pop at the gaffer is a bit premature after 3months, I mean its your right to post it over and over again, but im gonna be honest, its tiresome beyond belief.

So whats the answer? Do you think we should release Ronald and look for somebody else? Or shall we give him longer than 1 transfer window and 12 games?



My head isnt in the sand David, its right here.

Same question to you.

So whats the answer? Do you think we should release Ronald and look for somebody else? Or shall we give him longer than 1 transfer window and 12 games?


Im honestly curious what you both think the answer is.

I gave my answer 3months ago, it was "We limp towards the January window with the utter tosh squad we have and hope we can sign some actual football players in January".

I've already said the answer isn't to remove Koeman. There should be no calls for that in his first season.

The answer is simple: drill these players and stop dreaming about January spending to solve a problem; shut his big gob and start acting like he's actually happy to be at this club.

Maybe that's too much for him?

 

[degsy]

I take your point about the types of uneven ability we have in this team. However, I must return to the point already made that in the first five games of this season the very same players looked verymuch up for the new level of intensity required to make sense of Koeman's approach to football. I'd actually say that could easily have been a perfect first five game start because the endeavour against Spurs deserved more than a point.

Here's the thing though: it's a concern that the team are now looking like an outfit only just introduced to the intensity Koeman prefers. They should at this stage be more comfortable with it rather than less so. It's as if they've decided that, 'well, we can ease our way into games and get Lukaku or Bolasie clear to score and dictate from that point'. It's gone backward, lost its way. And most onlookers seem to be comforting themselves with some notion that we'll simply sell all the shirkers and get players in who can follow the instructions to a tee. That is fantasy Island stuff for me. We're not at that place as a club, despite what the owner's cheer-leaders tell you.

Koeman needs to introduce Davies at a minimum. He needs to bench until he's sold Jagielka. He needs to stop ballsing about with pacifying Everton's old guard and giving them a status they dont deserve. And he needs to shut his grid in public criticising these players and do it where it should be done: Finch Farm.

Personal Opinion (isn't everything):The only game we showed consistent 'Intensity' was the 1st 45mins of the Spurs game, the other games we seemed to stumble to a win despite our best(worst) intentions/efforts.
It was almost like the Players had sorta half bought into Koemans 'new boss ethos', but being not fit, decided - 'too much like hard work this pressing/intensity lark, I'm knackers after half a game - sod this for a game of 'kin soldiers'...and he want's us to do extra training as well??

I did toy with starting a new Thread; working title:- We don't actually have a proper Mid Field or any proper Mid Field players'
You know the sort of players that could do a bit of everything - some in different ratios obviously. 10 yrs ago people were asking whydo we have to have 5 in MF - my answer being - because we don't have 4 good enough.

I'm not expecting Ball Kendall Harvey, or Steven Reid Bracewell and Sheedy but proper players, like the Icelandic guy from Swansea or a Clement, Rioch, Dobson, Hartford, even a McMahon ffs, a Gabriel and Kay or a Denis Stevens or Collins - skilled, tough, hard working
What mostly used to be called in 'old money' - Halfbacks - though some played a bit more forward, like Collins and Hartford.
Oh for an Archie Gemmill - not the pale version we ended up with.

The game is and always was, 'Won or Lost in the Midfield'

And we ain't got one.

What we have is Gana and old man with a brain who was never that fast when he was 23. We then have any number of buckshe wingers
and Barkley who is like Bowels, Marsh and MacKenzie, but without a brain and some devilment about him.
The couldn't play Martinez's tika-taka too well nor, it seems Koemans 'pressing/intensity

How about some Halfbacks/Midfielders/Insideforwards who can just play Football (and let the keeper wear the No. 10 shirt to stop them arguing about it.)

*ends mini rant.

 

[4737carlin]

As I've said numerous times, Pep couldn't do much better with this squad. While I have never been warm towards Koeman, we can't be talking of removing him. That's ludicrous.
There are 15 players that need removing first.

This is true, he has to have been handed the tools to work with first, even so I do think with what we have available we should of done slightly better.

For me a lot of the negativity towards him goes back to the Norwich game, and his lackadaisical post match interview, prior to that we seem to be doing well, then it came apart and we havent got back on track since.

 

[kithnou]

Sums it up really...

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...mus-Coleman-Ronald-Koeman-Premier-League-News

Everton ace Ashley Williams admits to crisis talks after scraping a point against Swansea
ASHLEY WILLIAMS says Everton’s players will meet this week in an effort to work out how to eradicate the inconsistency which is threatening to undermine their season.
By GIDEON BROOKS
PUBLISHED: 00:05, Mon, Nov 21, 2016 | UPDATED: 00:13, Mon, Nov 21, 2016

Another hot and cold display against Swansea left Goodison Park frustrated for all that Seamus Coleman’s last-gasp equaliser earned a point.

And Williams admitted that the Everton squad will have to work out fast how to they can string together two decent halves if they are to reboot a season which is beginning to stutter.

“It is frustrating for all of us,” said the centre-half, who moved from Swansea to Everton in the summer.

“We are trying our best but for whatever reason this [inconsistency] is happening. This week we will speak a bit more about that because I feel it is definitely something we need to work on in the 90 minutes and from game to game.”

GETTY

Ashley Williams has admitted Everton will hold crisis talks to save their season

GETTY

Seamus Coleman scored late to rescue a point for Everton against Swansea
Premier League 2016/17 average attendance: Every team ranked
Thu, November 17, 2016
Click through the gallery to reveal every Premier League team’s average attendance in 2016/17 so far

Everton flew out of the blocks early this season with four wins and a draw in the first five but now have just one win from their last seven Premier League matches.

And with Southampton away followed by Manchester United, Watford, Arsenal and Liverpoolin the pre-Christmas period, Williams and co have to arrive at a solution pretty quickly.

Everton went behind after Phil Jagielka upended Gylfi Sigurdsson inside the box in the 41st minute, the Iceland international converting from the spot.

But it will be a frustration to Ronald Koeman that it took that to rouse his side into some sort of anger even if Coleman’s late equaliser was due reward for sustained pressure in the second half.

For Swansea the late goal was a kick in the guts that they perhaps did not deserve after an improved display. Yet Sigurdsson insisted the squad believe a first win under American coach Bob Bradley is imminent.

“Having only six points is not down to the manager it’s down to us, the players,” he said.

“All of the boys like the manager and the way he’s training us is very good. So it is down to us to perform and get the results.

“I have felt for the last few weeks it [a win] is just around corner and it is not come yet. But this was a big performance and while it was not to be in the end hopefully this is the start and it is just around the corner.

 

[Goat]

I've already said the answer isn't to remove Koeman. There should be no calls for that in his first season.

The answer is simple: drill these players and stop dreaming about January spending to solve a problem; shut his big gob and start acting like he's actually happy to be at this club.

Maybe that's too much for him?

That seems like hard work, hows hes meant to keep his handicap down?

 

[Zatara]

Ok. I just do not agree with you on this.

Galloway can't even make the starting lineup of West Brom and the loan might even cut short. That is a good enough evidence for me. Baines might past his best but still a better option than Galloway at LB.

Google Serge Gnabry

 

[Zatara]

If you think the problem is with our fullbacks well theres no helping you Zat.

We have many problems in the squad, the 2 fullbacks arent the issue.

its one of them as they arent picked on merit

 

[Khalekan]

Ive discussed it, not once have I said we are playing great and that im happy with our form.

I just think that to be having a pop at the gaffer is a bit premature after 3months, I mean its your right to post it over and over again, but im gonna be honest, its tiresome beyond belief.

So whats the answer? Do you think we should release Ronald and look for somebody else? Or shall we give him longer than 1 transfer window and 12 games?

First up, I am glad you are now admitting that you are not happy with our form.

Neither am I......and I reserve the right to post about my unhappiness on this and other forums.

Second, I don't think there is owt wrong with having a pop at the manager when he has his team playing abysmal, losing football and at the same time shooting his mouth off about our best player needing to leave, even he has only been here a short while.

And whether you think it "tiresome" or not, the six points from twenty one is an actual thing and I am absolutely certain it is annoying the heck out of you like it is annoying the heck out of me.

You ask me for an answer?

Like yourself, I don't have one.

We just watch, think and post our thoughts on here and elsewhere.

We are powerless onlookers, with only GOT and other forums to preserve our sanity by letting us vent.

No.....I do not want Koeman fired and have never once said that.

Yes....he certainly needs longer than twelve games and one transfer window before a definitive opinion can be formed about him.

But in the meantime people will use forums like this to comment about what is happening in the here and now.

Which we both agree is pretty awful.

And what the heck else am I going to be doing at 2 a.m. of a Monday morning if not either bitching about Everton or eulogising them on an internet message board

With this club it is always either sadness or euphoria.....there is never an in between.

In the old days when I felt chagrined about EFC I sent a letter to the Pink Echo and waited a week to see if they would publish it and if published, would Tommy blooming Smith call it a Fair Tackle

Nowadays I can say my piece and get instant responses from good fellows like yourself........we are like minded blokes with a different perspective but we both want the same thing.

A successful Everton

 

[Khalekan]

Personal Opinion (isn't everything):The only game we showed consistent 'Intensity' was the 1st 45mins of the Spurs game, the other games we seemed to stumble to a win despite our best(worst) intentions/efforts.
It was almost like the Players had sorta half bought into Koemans 'new boss ethos', but being not fit, decided - 'too much like hard work this pressing/intensity lark, I'm knackers after half a game - sod this for a game of 'kin soldiers'...and he want's us to do extra training as well??

I did toy with starting a new Thread; working title:- We don't actually have a proper Mid Field or any proper Mid Field players'
You know the sort of players that could do a bit of everything - some in different ratios obviously. 10 yrs ago people were asking whydo we have to have 5 in MF - my answer being - because we don't have 4 good enough.

I'm not expecting Ball Kendall Harvey, or Steven Reid Bracewell and Sheedy but proper players, like the Icelandic guy from Swansea or a Clement, Rioch, Dobson, Hartford, even a McMahon ffs, a Gabriel and Kay or a Denis Stevens or Collins - skilled, tough, hard working
What mostly used to be called in 'old money' - Halfbacks - though some played a bit more forward, like Collins and Hartford.
Oh for an Archie Gemmill - not the pale version we ended up with.

The game is and always was, 'Won or Lost in the Midfield'

And we ain't got one.

What we have is Gana and old man with a brain who was never that fast when he was 23. We then have any number of buckshe wingers
and Barkley who is like Bowels, Marsh and MacKenzie, but without a brain and some devilment about him.
The couldn't play Martinez's tika-taka too well nor, it seems Koemans 'pressing/intensity

How about some Halfbacks/Midfielders/Insideforwards who can just play Football (and let the keeper wear the No. 10 shirt to stop them arguing about it.)

*ends mini rant.

Great stuff, degsy.

Loved that bit about the keeper wearing the 10

 

[Goat]

its one of them as they arent picked on merit

But they are, they are without question the 2 best fullbacks in the squad, without question.

 

[Zatara]

But they are, they are without question the 2 best fullbacks in the squad, without question.

If a player gets man of the match (holgate) after improving game on game then in his next premier league game he should start...if hes dropped to play someone returning from injury (coleman) it means hes either not being picked on merit OR he needs a rest.

Coleman came in and was fine for 2 games then below par (to be kind) Holgate should have been brought back in.

No matter who the returning player is, you have to pick players on merit.

 

[Goat]

First up, I am glad you are now admitting that you are not happy with our form.

Neither am I......and I reserve the right to post about my unhappiness on this and other forums.

Second, I don't think there is owt wrong with having a pop at the manager when he has his team playing abysmal, losing football and at the same time shooting his mouth off about our best player needing to leave, even he has only been here a short while.

And whether you think it "tiresome" or not, the six points from twenty one is an actual thing and I am absolutely certain it is annoying the heck out of you like it is annoying the heck out of me.

You ask me for an answer?

Like yourself, I don't have one.

We just watch, think and post our thoughts on here and elsewhere.

We are powerless onlookers, with only GOT and other forums to preserve our sanity by letting us vent.

No.....I do not want Koeman fired and have never once said that.

Yes....he certainly needs longer than twelve games and one transfer window before a definitive opinion can be formed about him.

But in the meantime people will use forums like this to comment about what is happening in the here and now.

Which we both agree is pretty awful.

And what the heck else am I going to be doing at 2 a.m. of a Monday morning if not either bitching about Everton or eulogising them on an internet message board

With this club it is always either sadness or euphoria.....there is never an in between.

In the old days when I felt chagrined about EFC I sent a letter to the Pink Echo and waited a week to see if they would publish it and if published, would Tommy blooming Smith call it a Fair Tackle

Nowadays I can say my piece and get instant responses from good fellows like yourself........we are like minded blokes with a different perspective but we both want the same thing.

A successful Everton

I dunno, it just gets me down, reading page upon page of people calling the manager this, the manager that and its always the people that didnt want Koeman in the first place or people like David with agendas to push. You claim "we" have our head in the sand, but I see it the same way, "you" ignore the real issues, the underperforming players, the fact that yesterday we laid siege to their goal for the entire 2nd half.

I just dont share this view that the tactics are wrong or that Koeman isnt doing enough or even that he stop talking the truth with regards Lukaku. So for me, in the list of people to blame, Koeman is fairly low down, certain players currently take my wrath, whoever dropped the ball in the summer is also ahead of him.

As ive stated, its grim, ive stated all season, we arent playing well, I just personally dont blame Koeman for that, if in 12 months we are struggling against shitters at home and playing like clowns, well then I suppose I will understand it a bit more.

 

[Goat]

If a player gets man of the match (holgate) after improving game on game then in his next premier league game he should start...if hes dropped to play someone returning from injury (coleman) it means hes either not being picked on merit OR he needs a rest.

Coleman came in and was fine for 2 games then below par (to be kind) Holgate should have been brought back in.

No matter who the returning player is, you have to pick players on merit.

So as ive said, if Lukaku got injured and Kone/Niasse/Valencia replaced him and got MOTM, would you be happy to see Lukaku warm the bench for a few games while Kone/Niasse/Valencia played?

You have stated time and time again you dont rate Coleman or Baines, you want both of them replaced by younger players, simply cos they are both over the age of 25.

The boy Mason doesnt even get games for England U21, im honestly baffled you would play him ahead of Coleman, based on 1 performance.

For the record, he was given MOTM by the club, nobody else gave him MOTM.

And hes not even a RB, he plays CB every week for the U23s.