Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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No, I just picked up on a reply that Esk made to another poster. It was not grammar or even semantics, it was the certainty that was implied, when as we all know nothing is certain......
And it was explained to you how the term (which IS what you latched on to btw) came to be used, why it was used, and what it meant... and you're still questioning it because it doesn't suit your agenda, but not saying anything about what or why, but arguing against an implication of something that was implied because it is true... What?

Are you not seeing how this makes no sense?
 
So are you saying that they 'have been blown apart' they 'may be blown apart, or they 'will be blown apart'. And you wanted examples of how we are talking ourselves down..........

Blown apart. The UK and (EU) are both WTO members but their membership is bundled with each other so we have to renegotiate membership on individual terms. The WTO operates via consensus so requires just one member to dissent to scupper things. They have 170 or so members.

You might believe this will be simple but past WTO trade deals suggest that is unlikely and they will logically negotiate with the EU first as they're a bigger economy.
 
The hysteria in here is ridiculous. What exactly has changed? Well simply, the pound is down and the economy is growing at fastest rate of any G7 country.

Hardly a crisis.

The only people causing the hysteria and claiming we're doomed are the same people who claimed we were idiots for not joining the euro currency. Things are going fine. We will emerge in a stronger position than any euro zone country.

Correct me if I'm wrong but we've only had the results from the 2nd quarter recently. There are no actual figures just predictions for post brexit growth and the figures quoted by the leave voters on here the other day had the growth for 2017 being half of what it was pre brexit.
 
Are you disputing that the old trade agreements will no longer exist if we create new ones?

You are arguing semantics because you don't like the wording, but what Esk said is factually correct

ALL of our previous agreements will no longer exist once Brexit happens and we will have ALL new ones that will replace them. They may end up being very similar, but that won't change the fact that they will be new

It's like if you sign a new contract at work for similar terms, the old contract is supplanted by the new one, thus the old one technically ceases to exist. Esk's language may be a bit strong for you, but at no point has he said anything that's factually incorrect

Do you understand the difference between now and the future. Do you accept that they are not the same and that while we may understand now, and even then some on here seem to have difficulty with this, we have little idea of the future because negotiations have not even started. We are still in the EU.....
 
I am sorry that I haven't got all of the answers to all of the issues that may or may not have become relevant this morning. The UK government, the EU commission and the individual EU governments will no doubt lend me some assistance and in the mean time I'll stop having a life and just try a bit harder......

I wasn't having a go mate it's just the Irish situation is going to be an issue , was always going to be an issue and nobody seems to have any clue what to do . Simply because the options are hard border , which we can't have , or no border which completely nullifies the whole EU borders debate . What we will almost certainly get is window dressing from the Irish in relation to their immigration controls .

For me it just all seems a bit mad.
 
So when Esk categorically stated that the UK' s trading relationships had been 'blown apart', not will be, not maybe, not possibly, but had been, you can prove this then.........this should be interesting.....

I think you need to re-read what I said, there was no use of the past tense.

What impact on the economy does a rise in interest rates have? At a time when our global trading relationships are blown apart by Brexit? You are kidding, surely?

Our current trading relationships are recognised in the context of the UK being part of the EU - we have no relationships anywhere in the world that fail to recognise our membership of the EU - that's a fundamental tenet of the Brexiter's argument, we're not the UK we are the EU because we cannot act independently.

Without the EU cloak our relationship with all other trading countries changes - I hope you understand that. It's not just our relationship with the EU that's going to change, it's our relationship with the rest of the world.

Hence our relationships "blown apart"

Our current global relationships are based on our membership of the EU. The moment we leave the EU then those relationships change, and most likely (assuming reasonable legal construction of those agreements) our existing relationships become invalid and subject to re-negotiation. Thus upon Brexit our existing relationships are blown apart.

As a country our legal persona changes when we leave the EU. That change will trigger changes and/or the cessation of existing relationships. As a nation independent of the EU, we are very different to a nation being a member of the EU and that difference will be reflected in existing trading relationships.

Nothing that is currently certain will be certain once Brexit, or the process of Brexit occurs. That's not a political statement it's purely a reflection of our changed legal status in the world.
 
Those what think there ought to be no 'hard border' Between Ulster & Eire are forgetting one thing.

Ulster isn't part of the mainland. You have to cross a stretch of water to get to mainland Britain.

No ID/Visa - No flight/Ferry. Not hard to figure what happens next, is it?
 
Blown apart. The UK and (EU) are both WTO members but their membership is bundled with each other so we have to renegotiate membership on individual terms. The WTO operates via consensus so requires just one member to dissent to scupper things. They have 170 or so members.

You might believe this will be simple but past WTO trade deals suggest that is unlikely and they will logically negotiate with the EU first as they're a bigger economy.

You didn't answer. As of today, nothing has changed, so nothing has been blown apart.

Our membership is not bundled together, only the agreements for tariffs are. If the EU and the UK separate then we are both still members. The vote you refer to will apply to the EU in exactly the same way as it will to the UK because the effective trading relationship of the overall EU, in it's dealings with China etc, will have changed, for everyone not just the UK.......
 
http://www.economist.com/blogs/grap...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

WHEN Michael Gove, as justice secretary, was campaigning for Vote Leave ahead of the European Union referendum on June 23rd, he claimed that the people of Britain had “had enough of experts”, referring to the long list of countries and organisations that had warned that Britain would be better off remaining in the EU. New analysis from the British Election Study, polling more than 10,000 voters, has found that Mr Gove was partially right, at least among his supporters. Those who voted to Leave typically preferred the wisdom of ordinary people to that of experts.

With a victory for gut feelings over hard facts, the triumphant Leave side has told those who chose Remain to stop complaining about the Brexit result: their victory was slim, but it was a victory. However, those who opted to Leave have stronger feelings of remorse about their vote. Whereas only 1% of Remainers regret their choice, 6% of Leavers do (a further 4% are undecided, compared with 1% of Remain voters). That would have been enough to have changed the outcome of the referendum to a win for Remain. The theory that many Leavers voted as a protest against the political elite, as well as experts, gets more credibility from the study. Leaver remorse is strongest among those who didn’t expect their side to win: one in ten of them regret their vote.

One of the many significant obstacles facing the politicians who must now negotiate Britain’s new place in the world is trade. As part of the EU, Britain has trade agreements in place with more than 50 countries. New agreements cannot start being negotiated until two years after Article 50 is triggered (the legal means by which a country leaves the union). Striking new trade deals is a notoriously slow process and the terms eventually agreed are likely to be less favourable to Britain than those it enjoys through its membership of the EU, the biggest trading block in the world. With a complicated road to Brexit ahead, the “Bregret” among Leavers may grow as the realities of their choice become clearer.
 
I wasn't having a go mate it's just the Irish situation is going to be an issue , was always going to be an issue and nobody seems to have any clue what to do . Simply because the options are hard border , which we can't have , or no border which completely nullifies the whole EU borders debate . What we will almost certainly get is window dressing from the Irish in relation to their immigration controls .

For me it just all seems a bit mad.

It's going to be a real problem isn't it mate. One of the solutions being looked at is to have the hard border moved to Ireland's entry points - ports and airports, to enable the conditions and spirit of the Good Friday Agreementto be met. This then of course, causes issues with regards to the freedom of movement between Ireland and the rest of the EU, so hardly seems likely or practical.
 
I wasn't having a go mate it's just the Irish situation is going to be an issue , was always going to be an issue and nobody seems to have any clue what to do . Simply because the options are hard border , which we can't have , or no border which completely nullifies the whole EU borders debate . What we will almost certainly get is window dressing from the Irish in relation to their immigration controls .

For me it just all seems a bit mad.

The first suggestion of a border control in Eire has already gone down like a lead ballon in the south. I expect someone will suggest one between NI and the rest of the UK next and that too will go down badly. A lot will depend upon the final EU agreement I suspect as to who if anybody has the responsibility for the exiting of EU nationals, logic says the last EU country of exit, but I imagine logic will be pushed aside.......
 
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