Current Affairs EU In or Out

[random]

any delays to moving goods in and out of the UK hurts them more than us you can argue, there is a trade deficit of 64bn a year with the EU.

I voted leave mate but this is wrong on so many levels.

If you wish to research a bit deeper into it you will see why

 

[Jebus_lives]

Farage is a key figure in the leave campaign, some of his views aren’t great, but I still believe Brexit is anti racist. Not all leavers support Farage.


I could easily say Tony Blair and his illegal war is what the remainers support, but it’s just simply not true.

There’s extremes on both sides.

You followed this post talking about how the EU allows free movement of people from Romania, while the UK government does not allow 'highly skilled people from Africa because of rules and quotas'

I Can’t see freedom of movement as a benefit, actually I see it as a racist policy that prefers white Christian immigration over non Eu immigration.

I have a family friend who has relatives who are pretty highly skilled, because they’re not from Romania but from Africa they’ve been rejected to come into the Uk, because of some arbitrary quotas and rules.

Access to the single market isn’t a benefit either, it’s a restriction of trade.

With this one:

Brexit is anti racist, when we leave we’d be able to have a immigration policy that doesn’t favour european immigration.

 

[hirons11]

I’d hoped that we leave in October, then get back to normality, but those 21 MP’s and Corbyn just want it to continue, Corbyn is now too scared to even have a GE having demanded one every day for a few years now.....

So only Boris is allowed to play the "politics" game then?

If Corbyn actually resists the urge to go for the GE then he will actually go up in my estimation for once.

 

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

Of course it is:
View attachment 66364

There is nothing wrong with wanting to ease the strain on public services and the NHS and being allowed to police your own borders and being in charge of who comes into your country and lives here, the US do it, Australia does it.

 

[Kenshin]

Allowed by who? This seems an awfully snowflakey attitude.

If you want to espouse an opinion in public, then don't be surprised when people comment, criticise or argue the inverse.

But it's not that though is it? This isn't a difference of opinion and it never has been. It's a right Vs wrong argument that is completely one sided. People aren't discussing pros and cons , they are telling/being told by essentially a minority opinion.

I would argue the snowflake idea is more on the losing side protesting, complaining and signing petitions to get their own way despite more people disagreeing. Which is my point I suppose.

Since the referendum one side has made as much noise about getting their own way despite a clear cut yes or no vote for the entire country. That would in essence be the defenition of a snowflake culture. Wanting it their own way no matter what.

The funny thing is, all this effort that has gone into remaining after the referendum, it could have been spent trying to push the government's into getting the best possible scenario instead. Accepting the vote and using their voices to demand a favourable leave deal has been ignored , rather a we aren't happy we want another say .

And what if we voted again and leave won again? Would that not make a lot of people protesting, marching and signing petitions look a little silly?

 

[I Miss Chang]

But it's not that though is it? This isn't a difference of opinion and it never has been. It's a right Vs wrong argument that is completely one sided. People aren't discussing pros and cons , they are telling/being told by essentially a minority opinion.

I would argue the snowflake idea is more on the losing side protesting, complaining and signing petitions to get their own way despite more people disagreeing. Which is my point I suppose.

Since the referendum one side has made as much noise about getting their own way despite a clear cut yes or no vote for the entire country. That would in essence be the defenition of a snowflake culture. Wanting it their own way no matter what.

The funny thing is, all this effort that has gone into remaining after the referendum, it could have been spent trying to push the government's into getting the best possible scenario instead. Accepting the vote and using their voices to demand a favourable leave deal has been ignored , rather a we aren't happy we want another say .

And what if we voted again and leave won again? Would that not make a lot of people protesting, marching and signing petitions look a little silly?

The reason why Britain has not left the EU yet has almost nothing to do with Remainers, and everything to do with the fact that not even the Leavers can agree on what Brexit actually means.

 

[Hawhaw]

Its posts like this which remind me why we have had over 800 years of trouble with you lot.

You might not like to hear it, but Irish English Welsh Scottish are all the same people. Most of Scousers have Irish blood, and Dublin was built by the English.


Ulster is as British as Essex.

Sammy Wilson DUP made a great point, here


We must stop the EU from annexing our country.

 

[peteblue]

So only Boris is allowed to play the "politics" game then?

If Corbyn actually resists the urge to go for the GE then he will actually go up in my estimation for once.

And the country remains paralysed. Businesses need a date. They can work to sort anything out but they need a date.....

 

[BlueToff]

No offence, but have you only just started to pay attention to all this?

You're right, there is no reason on paper why Brexit couldn't include continued access to the single market - free movement, single-market access, and membership of the customs union remain part of Labour's perfectly sensible compromise position, with the caveat that any agreement Labour reaches with the EU will require ratification by a popular vote.

And initially, as many here have documented, the leading Leave figures - David Davies, Nigel Farage, Rees-Mogg - all insisted that they too sought a close relationship with the EU along these lines.

Since then, however, Brexit has been redefined from a plausible if debatably useful compromise to economically suicidal extremism based on nothing more than half-hearted lies, bravado and fantasy. This has been extensively documented here, hundreds of times, by dozens of different posters with a wide range of views on the EU. Claiming that this is nothing but 'Project Fear' or whatever is at this point disqualifyingly ignorant and lazy.

And the reason for this has nothing to do with very online remainers (an admittedly obnoxious bunch), and everything to do with the Leave ultras who've commandeered the Conservative party, such that anything short of No Deal Brexit is now tantamount to treason. You are picking the right fight, but with the wrong people.

I don't understand why you have suddenly soured on Corbyn. It may be that you misunderstand what his position actually is (which would not be surprising given the very obvious concerted media effort to distort what he says and represents). But, speaking as dispassionately as possible, it remains the case that Labour's position (which has not substantially changed since 2017) seems to best reflect what you seem to think you want from Brexit.

As an aside, I have always enjoyed your comments on Everton, which are far more logic- and evidence-based than most of the mindless slop that gets conjured up on football forums. So it is a bit surprising to see you spouting such strong opinions here on matters which even you admit you don't really understand very well - and it shows. The @BlueToff I've admired on the Everton forum would be rightfully taking the piss out of many of your more emotional comments in this forum.

I take all of those points on board.

I'm frustrated and angry.

I voted leave but simultaneously don't want anybody to be losing jobs as a result. I don't want anybody to be hurt. But I also don't think a referendum result can just be ignored because people didn't like the outcome.

I'm fed up of it all.

I have soured on Corbyn. Not just because of the Brexit thing.

I thought it was a guy who I could really get behind. In the last two years I just don't think he's offered as much as he could. Repeating the same lines over and over again to please his party?

I don't see how last night does anything except prolong the crapshow.

So yep, maybe I am emotional. It hasn't been a short-term thing on Corbyn, though. I started having reservations well over a year ago. I don't think he has the command of his own party, for one. And while I don't think that reflects well on the MPs in question, it also doesn't reflect well on him.

I just want this to be over now, one way or the other

 

[BlueToff]

But it's not that though is it? This isn't a difference of opinion and it never has been. It's a right Vs wrong argument that is completely one sided. People aren't discussing pros and cons , they are telling/being told by essentially a minority opinion.

I would argue the snowflake idea is more on the losing side protesting, complaining and signing petitions to get their own way despite more people disagreeing. Which is my point I suppose.

Since the referendum one side has made as much noise about getting their own way despite a clear cut yes or no vote for the entire country. That would in essence be the defenition of a snowflake culture. Wanting it their own way no matter what.

The funny thing is, all this effort that has gone into remaining after the referendum, it could have been spent trying to push the government's into getting the best possible scenario instead. Accepting the vote and using their voices to demand a favourable leave deal has been ignored , rather a we aren't happy we want another say .

And what if we voted again and leave won again? Would that not make a lot of people protesting, marching and signing petitions look a little silly?

This is a much better way of putting the point I've attempted to make.

 

[peteblue]

Do you often trust liars Pete? Because most sensible people don't.

They are all liars.....

 

[graham74]

You might not like to hear it, but Irish English Welsh Scottish are all the same people. Most of Scousers have Irish blood, and Dublin was built by the English.


Ulster is as British as Essex.

Sammy Wilson DUP made a great point, here


We must stop the EU from annexing our country.

Oh deary me

 

[TyphooToffee]

I knew and I still voted to leave. I did a lot of reading, including sensible articles about leaving without a deal. I think you do Brixiteers a disservice by assuming they were all, and are, ignorant racists. I, for one, am neither ignorant nor racist.

And there's me saying I'm not ignorant!

 

[Kenshin]

The reason why Britain has not left the EU yet has almost nothing to do with Remainers, and everything to do with the fact that not even the Leavers can agree on what Brexit actually means.

Completely untrue.

The ballot didn't have any list of conditions , it was remain or leave.

Therefore no matter what deal, it lack thereof , the result is leave the EU. There was no conditional vote, it was leave with no other context.

The reason why we haven't left yet is 100% MPs who actually don't want to leave the EU themselves (not did the politicians who gave us the vote ) . The reason why this is dragging on and on, the reason why they can't agree on a deal amongst themselves , they don't want to leave in the first place.

After the referendum, this has nothing to do with the public. We have had no part in it since that date , we chose an option and it's the mps fault as to why it hasn't happened.

 

[Jebus_lives]

There is nothing wrong with wanting to ease the strain on public services and the NHS and being allowed to police your own borders and being in charge of who comes into your country and lives here, the US do it, Australia does it.

I think that's a reasonable position to argue.

Im not sure that portraying asylum seekers across Europe in a Nazi style propaganda campaign, claiming that they'll all soon have EU passports, is reasonable.