Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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The EU isn't in a mess at all. Indeed, back in 2016 when Johnson was spouting his nonsense about WW3, the root of concerns about the health of democracy in Europe was due to the rise of people like Le Pen and Wilders to join Orban and Babis in eastern Europe. As these despots all largely approve of Brexit, there was a fear that a leave vote would add gusto to their campaigns and lead to a dramatic lurch to the fringes across Europe.

Thankfully, that hasn't happened as the Tories have made such a pigs ear of the whole affair that it's strengthened the EU rather than weakened it, and support for far right nationalists across the continent has weakened, with Macron winning in France, Rutte in the Netherlands and Merkel being voted back in in Germany. That's not to say that the threat of the far right has gone away, and indeed the AfD made big gains in Germany, Wilders was 2nd in the Netherlands and Le Pen made the final round in France, but merely that the immediate risk of Brexit causing the breakup of the EU has dissipated.

Interestingly, I read a study recently suggesting that support for more extremist parties tends to be highest during periods of relative economic calm, as people feel emboldened to gamble, which if a recession is looming as many predict may have an impact. Of course, you could equally argue that recessions prompt people to lash out as they have nothing to lose. Time will tell I suppose.

Fair enough, Bruce, you know more than me.

I do find it interesting that we have had hardly any coverage - mainly because we're so obsessed with Brexit here - about the riots in France.

Still ongoing as far as I know, though not as regular as they were earlier in the year?
 
It's an absolute mess is this.

I firmly blame Corbyn, staunch anti-europe turned pro EU inside 12 months, banging on about wanting a people's vote/general election and he's being offered that on a plate right now because a GE will be also a people's vote, leave with Boris, stay with Corbyn, yet he wants to ensure first whatever happens, we make sure the EU hold all the aces permanently by outlawing a No Deal.

Astonishing what is going on here.
 
Because I'm sick of people acting like the world is ending, mate.

There's real problems on the planet. Real issues. Famine, poverty, religious ideologies and devastating natural disasters.

Yet people feel the need to dress up as the Union Jack, or stand outside parliament for weeks holding an EU flag which means absolutely nothing. All because something might not go the way they want to. We've had three years of it. Enough is enough. People need to get a grip.
So the fact that we could of pushed ourselves closer to poverty with a no deal (as Corbyn pointed out was within the governments own predictions) should be overlooked? We should of just carried on regardless towards one of the issues that you’ve just deemed to be real?

As I’ve said multiple times in this thread, my job depends on a functioning trade agreement with the EU. If no deal goes through then effectively I’m up the swanny.

Just because it doesn’t seem important to you doesn’t mean it isn’t.
 
Because I'm sick of people acting like the world is ending, mate.

There's real problems on the planet. Real issues. Famine, poverty, religious ideologies and devastating natural disasters.

Yet people feel the need to dress up as the Union Jack, or stand outside parliament for weeks holding an EU flag which means absolutely nothing. All because something might not go the way they want to. We've had three years of it. Enough is enough. People need to get a grip.

I’d hoped that we leave in October, then get back to normality, but those 21 MP’s and Corbyn just want it to continue, Corbyn is now too scared to even have a GE having demanded one every day for a few years now.....
 
Well today we are facing yet more months of doing nothing to sort this mess out bravo parliment.
Johnson will just wait till the bill goes through and get a GE and campain to overturn it , turn it into a people agaist the parliment , horrors of a jew hating commie corbyn goverment(more than likely eating babies by the time the press get through with him).
All last night achieved was kicking the can down the road and a chance for johnson and co to cleance there party of opposition and getting themselves into position for a GE.
Last night and today are just good veiwing
But achieve nothing in the long run.
Parliment are a joke on all sides of the house.
 
It's an absolute mess is this.

I firmly blame Corbyn, staunch anti-europe turned pro EU inside 12 months, banging on about wanting a people's vote/general election and he's being offered that on a plate right now because a GE will be also a people's vote, leave with Boris, stay with Corbyn, yet he wants to ensure first whatever happens, we make sure the EU hold all the aces permanently by outlawing a No Deal.

Astonishing what is going on here.
 
So...I'm feeling hopeful this morning.

I believe No Deal on 31st October is now off the agenda.

I believe a General Election is certain.

Surely, I hope, a GE campaign will force the Tories/Brexit Leave side to offer facts and hard evidence?

The referendum was won by lies and false promises. Surely this time will be better?

Can Johnson go into a GE advocating No Deal? I am not sure he can - but what does he say?

Without No Deal purity the rancid Brexit Party will snap at his heals.

The overall outcome for me is now really uncertain though.

I think we can assume:

Scotland - masssive SNP, Lib Dem, Labour
Remain majority

London - massive Labour sweep with a couple of Lib Dems

But after that:

Tory shires - how does the interplay between Tories and Brexit work? Aside from the poor East of England where there is no Lib Dems I am half curious to see what happens say in ripe blue Berkshire or Buckinghamshire where the Tories and BP go head to head? There's no Labour party so does Remain coalesce around Lib Dems? I doubt it gets close but interesting

South West and South Coast - certain tracts now safe Lib Dem areas? In urban parts does it end up as a huge 4 way marginal?

North West and North East - does the Lib Dem and Labour battle give a route to the Brexit Party to feature strongly?

Yorkshire - Tory strongholds fighting with the BP. Opportunities for Labour or Lib Dems or probs neither

Midlands - toss of a coin?

Northern Ireland - do nationalists abandon SF to give a voice to SDLP and Alliance?

Interesting times.
 
Well today we are facing yet more months of doing nothing to sort this mess out bravo parliment.
Johnson will just wait till the bill goes through and get a GE and campain to overturn it , turn it into a people agaist the parliment , horrors of a jew hating commie corbyn goverment(more than likely eating babies by the time the press get through with him).
All last night achieved was kicking the can down the road and a chance for johnson and co to cleance there party of opposition and getting themselves into position for a GE.
Last night and today are just good veiwing
But achieve nothing in the long run.
Parliment are a joke on all sides of the house.

As one of the few leave voters who makes a bit sense I hear what you’re saying but not sure what labour should, or could have done any different. What would you have preferred?
 
Corbyn never actually had a chance, or wanted to be PM. He always wanted to be a political maverick and shout on the sidelines. The people of this country will never support him.

He knows that there’s no chance of him beating a Farage/ Boris pact.
 
It's an absolute mess is this.

I firmly blame Corbyn, staunch anti-europe turned pro EU inside 12 months, banging on about wanting a people's vote/general election and he's being offered that on a plate right now because a GE will be also a people's vote, leave with Boris, stay with Corbyn, yet he wants to ensure first whatever happens, we make sure the EU hold all the aces permanently by outlawing a No Deal.

Astonishing what is going on here.

More worryingly is your prepared to believe others, think you need yourself to check Corbyns EU voting record. I would suggest reading up and what he was voting for. Below is some help..

 
I knew and I still voted to leave. I did a lot of reading, including sensible articles about leaving without a deal. I think you do Brixiteers a disservice by assuming they were all, and are, ignorant racists. I, for one, am neither ignorant nor racist.

Would be very interested if you can provide some evidence to back why you knew there might be a no deal at the end of this before the referendum took place.
 
So the fact that we could of pushed ourselves closer to poverty with a no deal (as Corbyn pointed out was within the governments own predictions) should be overlooked? We should of just carried on regardless towards one of the issues that you’ve just deemed to be real?

As I’ve said multiple times in this thread, my job depends on a functioning trade agreement with the EU. If no deal goes through then effectively I’m up the swanny.

Just because it doesn’t seem important to you doesn’t mean it isn’t.

No. I wanted our government/opposition to work together to formulate a plan that would ensure people didn't lose their jobs.

I don't think that's the same as divvies on either side crying when things don't go their way.

There hasn't been any pressure on our MPs to work together. It's all been about which side you're on.

Corbyn wanted out. I imagine he still wants out. Be he - rightly - doesn't want no deal. But nobody with any sense does.
 
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