Current Affairs EU In or Out

[BlueToff]

Meanwhile, in real life...

I'd love one of these to hit London and wake everyone the hell up.

We're utter freaks. Left and right.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I feel like some folks on here would benefit from masturbating before they post to unleash a bit of their testosterone.

If you want something to help.

We'll see you in a few minutes when you've calmed down a bit.

 

[thirdmantackle]

They also have fairly regular multiple choice referendums.

They have a referendum commission which sets out the details in plain common sense language that is impartial

They have strict rules on the running of campaigns for a referendum and the financing of those campaigns

(actually, we have both of those in Ireland)

 

[peteblue]

"Hello Switzerland, this is @JEBUS_LIVES...yes I'm very well thank you Switzerland... @peteblue has suggested someone give you a quick call to let you know that the UK process of withdrawal from the EU is a war...yes I know it's not but Pete thought someone should tell you it is...I know it's ridiculous but he loves the nostalgia of the British Empire and gloryfying our role in the World Wars so sees everything in these terms...yes I know neutrality is an important part of your foreign policy but the thought you should know anyway. Yes I know...i know it's bizarre...just a heads up... Well thank you very much...yes I'd love some Toblerone! Have a great day Switzerland".

Bravo.....

 

[random]

Not exactly correct. In Switzerland they hold them on a fairly regular basis and their system seems to work fine.
The problem comes when the political and social elite who run the country don't like or agree with the result of the referendum.

this country is run on the parliamentary democracy not a direct democracy, the two are not always compatible (as we have seen)

direct democracy in the context of a parliamentary democracy should really only be used to make significant changes to that parliamentary democracy - for example changing to a proportional representation system, even then its just a quick way (relatively speaking) to enact change

Parliamentary democracy always provides the option for people to start their own political party and if enough folks agree with their manifesto then that party will get in power and make the changes they need via that method.

referendums not really needed imo - this farce is all on the leaders of the conservatives trying to consolidate the power of them and their party.

well it’s a lesson learned for them isn’t it

 

[thirdmantackle]

What happens if Labour lose? Another GE?

Where does it stop.

We've had two GE's in four years and we're about to make it three. Mental.

Surely, that is Democracy?

 

[Hawhaw]

 

[Kenshin]

So the MPs can't agree on a deal, don't want no deal and don't want the deal on the table either.

They are happy to oust another prime minister just to get their own way (which I'm against unelected prime minister's but he is prime minister)

Here is the thing. The harsh reality of the political situation.

MPs vote and fight against no deal, so we don't leave the EU as per the referendum again. They get a prime minister they want in, they agree a deal amongst themselves they are happy with , binned off two PM's, delayed the process for probably at this rate 12 months.

And the EU say no to them. Then what? All of this was for nothing. What noone is saying is it's the EU deal or no deal and will be the case no matter what. No other options yet then self serving MPs who only care about their own interests can't see that.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't think they hate us. I don't think they're evil.

But from the outside it doesn't appear they have been willing to do any real negotiating.

I must clarify here that I absolutely respect they have no reason to. They aren't the ones leaving. They didn't want us to leave. They hold the cards. I get it.

But simultaneously, the UK have voted to leave and the EU is a mess. It is being propped up by Germany and, to a lesser extent, France. There's a huge problem with rising right-wing nationalists in most of the major western states now, it seems. They have several countries on the verge of recession.

Surely, given the situation everybody is in, it would be better for them to have a deal with us that makes some concessions, but still gives them what they want in terms of money and trade?

I'm not saying the UK should come out of this as glorious winners. I just feel like there's been no active working towards a deal from either side. And given the mess both sides are in, that seems strange.

But what do I know? Genuinely, my political knowledge is limited. I'm just putting it as I see it.

I don't trust the top dogs in the EU as much as I don't trust our government, though. Nothing over the course of the last three years has made me change my mind and think it's an organisation I'd have liked us to join in the state its currently in. And that's how I decided (maybe wrongly) to vote leave three years ago. I went into that ballot box not knowing which box to tick. I took my time and decided if it was a referendum to join it, then I don't think I'd vote in.

I don't think any member of the public should be made to feel bad for their vote, either way. We weren't informed enough of the strengths of the EU by Remain, who simply focused on ridiculing Leave's arguments. Well, look how that turned out. Look how it turned out in the US with Trump. Focusing on negatives doesn't work, and so for all the crying of 'lies' from Leave's side, it's Remain's arrogance that got us into this position in the first place.

And I go back to the point that if politicans had simply looked to work together over the past three years, rather than this ludicrous in-fighting, we'd be in a much stronger position.

The EU isn't in a mess at all. Indeed, back in 2016 when Johnson was spouting his nonsense about WW3, the root of concerns about the health of democracy in Europe was due to the rise of people like Le Pen and Wilders to join Orban and Babis in eastern Europe. As these despots all largely approve of Brexit, there was a fear that a leave vote would add gusto to their campaigns and lead to a dramatic lurch to the fringes across Europe.

Thankfully, that hasn't happened as the Tories have made such a pigs ear of the whole affair that it's strengthened the EU rather than weakened it, and support for far right nationalists across the continent has weakened, with Macron winning in France, Rutte in the Netherlands and Merkel being voted back in in Germany. That's not to say that the threat of the far right has gone away, and indeed the AfD made big gains in Germany, Wilders was 2nd in the Netherlands and Le Pen made the final round in France, but merely that the immediate risk of Brexit causing the breakup of the EU has dissipated.

Interestingly, I read a study recently suggesting that support for more extremist parties tends to be highest during periods of relative economic calm, as people feel emboldened to gamble, which if a recession is looming as many predict may have an impact. Of course, you could equally argue that recessions prompt people to lash out as they have nothing to lose. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[TyphooToffee]

They weren't worried about it because it was never mentioned! Nobody who voted leave knew what they were voting for.

I knew and I still voted to leave. I did a lot of reading, including sensible articles about leaving without a deal. I think you do Brixiteers a disservice by assuming they were all, and are, ignorant racists. I, for one, am neither ignorant nor racist.

 

[zzr45]

Meanwhile, in real life...

I'd love one of these to hit London and wake everyone the hell up.

We're utter freaks. Left and right.

And that would help because?

 

[BlueToff]

Also, whenever the GE rolls around, I'm not voting.

I don't want to have to take the blame when others don't get what they want. I'm fed up of that. Want no part in it.

That goes against everything I believe in, as I think you should always use your right to vote. But there's nothing I believe in enough to vote for.

 

[peteblue]

And the chickens run away......

 

[BlueToff]

And that would help because?

Because I'm sick of people acting like the world is ending, mate.

There's real problems on the planet. Real issues. Famine, poverty, religious ideologies and devastating natural disasters.

Yet people feel the need to dress up as the Union Jack, or stand outside parliament for weeks holding an EU flag which means absolutely nothing. All because something might not go the way they want to. We've had three years of it. Enough is enough. People need to get a grip.

 

[peteblue]