Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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I saw this picture today Pete. It was captioned '7am in Peteblue's village'

cw1qogv0zzs21.jpg

Our pub has lots of beer, and of the highest standards. I personally taste them all to ensure quality and consistency. It’s a tough role but someone has to do it.......
 
Yep it was just the "control" bit that caught my eye mate. I had a quick Google and came across some very scholarly stuff it would take all night to read. Basically Hitler hated them and was brilliant at using ordinary Germans' fears, anxieties and economic impoverishment to create unbelievable levels of resentment against all Jews, not just well-off ones. Amazing era in human history, not in a good way!!
 
Finally you are beginning to understand......
I've understood this all along Pete. I find it a bit odd that despite posting my position in this thread a number of times, that I'm considered a 'hard line remainer'. I just don't think people are willing to accept nuance..

While my position has been 'remain' I don't think the EU is wonderful nor do I wholeheartedly champion it's activities.

I agree I think that's the only option at present if you are to have a second referendum.

I'm conflicted over a second referendum in the first place as I don't think it is particularly Democratic (in that you rule by majority). But, where the level of informed debate was so low, completely bereft of any sensible debate, in all corners, it's hard to take the result of the referendum seriously and as stated previously, had it been binding, it would have been void.
It's an odd circumstance when the left wing are the ones advocating on behalf of the EU. I'm not great fan of the EU, I just think that it's most financially sound to stay in that remove yourself from it when almost all of your business and infrastructure relies upon it's systems.
Nicely put.

As I've stated, it's a very odd situation when you have the left arguing for a Capitalist entity like the EU. It's become a liberal panacea in the eyes of some, in their eyes exhibiting all of their own values - the reality is that it is not fully understand by many on either side if the debate, which is why misinformation on both sides has been allowed to dictate.

My position is arrived at by looking at the financial implications of leaving vs staying and partly as a result of the things that I like about the EU that people want to eradicate - like free movement.

I prefer to think we are stronger inside the single market and stronger as a union.
So it should. Belief that we are better remaining in the EU should not contradict criticism from some of it's activities and policies.

However, it's also irresponsible for UK politicians to hang those social factors solely around the neck of the EU when a policy of Austerity has led people to the point where they don't consider being poorer or economic uncertainty a threat as they already have absolutely nothing.

I see Brexit as a reaction to the status quo rather than the EU necessarily, which is why I find the narrative about racists and idiots a little uncomfortable when applied to 17.4m people. The same people are still being let down.
 
There are many who are/were perfectly happy with the EEC as a body that oversaw economic integration among it's member states. It's role as one which largely governed trade is acceptable to people that don't want to be aligned to a more federalised or a politically unified Europe.

There is, with good reason, a concern that a more centralised Europe, as a capitalist entity, with an ideology of 'European Nationalism' accompanied by the means to enforce that, through a centralised armed forces, bears all the hallmarks of a Facist state.

There is well documented philosophical commentary on the structures and ideology of Totalitarianism, the likes of Gramsci, Lefort, Arendt, Schmitt (offering a range of perspectives) and there are factions/individuals within the EU that want or at least aspire to move in a direction which could be considered or are persceptively, less liberal. Nazism and Facism have courted, particularly in the decades following WWII, the idea of a Nation of Europe and with greater centralised control it's easier to achieve.

Personally, I don't prescribe to that train of thought, as I tend to believe that the EU seeks to limit and reduce Facist elements where they emerge and it largely promotes/favours liberalism through it's legal processes and judgements. But I recognise the concern.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I was just pointing out that the EEC is not a separate entity anymore so if you are happy with the EEC, you have to be happy with the EU.

And the comment about the Euro being important has no impact on the UK’s part in the EU.
 
I think the fact that the Jews controlled the banking system in Germany in the 20s and 30s was one of the main reasons Hitler despised them.
I may be wrong but that is what I recall from my schooldays
If you look at the state of the German economy when he rose to power it was an easy lie to spread to gain power ,added to the terms of the surrender which were a seen as a national discrace,lands lost to France ect it was fertile ground for the nazi party to gain power.
I used to work with a German lady , who was a child when this was going on, asked her about it, she said all she can recall was one day everybody going up the the hill to were the jews lived and returning with furniture ,clothes ect that they had looted,
I said thats a bit shocking to see for a kid, what did you think, she said nothing they fkn deserved it.
Ended that conversation rather quickly , must have been engrained in her deeply as a kid and never went away shocking to see first hand.
 
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