Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
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Barnfred 55 said:
Its a 1 sided debate whereby 1 side is 100% right and the other 100% wrong.
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I disagree, largely as I don't agree with everything that fellow Remainers say in here, we disagree on a number of things. We all want the same outcome though ultimately.

Also, If you start your posts asking for further information, I would also expect people to provide you with further information, as have a number of posters. It just so happens that it has been done by posters that favour remain. Feel free to offer your own points for debate or counter argument or by all means try to get some actual evidence out if @peteblue and @Joey66 to support their claims.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
What isn't true?
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The fact that nobody has acknowledged you might be right. I think you've added value to the discussion, largely as you've attempted to engage and I think it's been a better thread as a result.

Certainly more useful than @Joey66 garbled nonsense. But by all means endorse the 'genuine debating' stance of those that offer absolutely no attempt to do so...
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
fact that nobody has acknowledged you might be right
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Show me one post where that has happened. That's my whole argument and the reason why there's no point posting in here any more. Nobody is prepared to accept any criticism whatsoever of the EU or Remain. Or accept that anybody who voted leave has any justification for doing so.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
Show me one post where that has happened. That's my whole argument and the reason why there's no point posting in here any more. Nobody is prepared to accept any criticism whatsoever of the EU or Remain. Or accept that anybody who voted leave has any justification for doing so.
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JEBUS_LIVES said:
It's an odd circumstance when the left wing are the ones advocating on behalf of the EU. I'm not great fan of the EU, I just think that it's most financially sound to stay in that remove yourself from it when almost all of your business and infrastructure relies upon it's systems.
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You even liked the comment.
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
You even liked the comment.
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Fair enough. I bet you can't find a second.lol

Listen mate, my frustration isn't directed at you personally, and you have been the only one who has made any real attempt at debate. But a few days ago Bruce posted a tweet that was clearly inaccurate and misleading, and it was your defence of that tweet that actually made be concede that there's no point in me continuing to post in here.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
Show me one post where that has happened. That's my whole argument and the reason why there's no point posting in here any more. Nobody is prepared to accept any criticism whatsoever of the EU or Remain. Or accept that anybody who voted leave has any justification for doing so.
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Welcome to the club, mate. Been there, done it, gave up.

I just post nice songs in this thread now.





20 and counting...! ;)
 
Barnfred 55 said:
Fair enough. I bet you can't find a second.lol

Listen mate, my frustration isn't directed at you personally, and you have been the only one who has made any real attempt at debate. But a few days ago Bruce posted a tweet that was clearly inaccurate and misleading, and it was your defence of that tweet that actually made be concede that there's no point in me continuing to post in here.
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Been following this exchange, on and off, today, and fwiw, as a "soft" remainer, perhaps my perspective might shed some light on your frustrations. Which I share to some extent.

Leavers, for a variety of reasons, either dont like the EU full stop, and/or have a specific beef with it. Either way, they must believe we are better off not in it.

Edit. And vice versa, obvs.

Remainers, again, for a variety of reasons, would prefer the status quo, as in they a dead keen on the EU, and/or, they are not sure if the sound bites that seemed to sway the result, are in any way realistic. Thats Me btw. Most, imo, are in the camp that I am in. I didnt believe the tripe served up by either sides, and on balance, reckoned staying was preferable to the utter unknown.

And thats before the shambles the MPs have made of it.

So, in a way you are correct. I cannot fathom, other than a pretty narrow few reasons, why so many folk voted for something they didnt have a clue what It actually will be.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
Fair enough. I bet you can't find a second.lol

Listen mate, my frustration isn't directed at you personally, and you have been the only one who has made any real attempt at debate. But a few days ago Bruce posted a tweet that was clearly inaccurate and misleading, and it was your defence of that tweet that actually made be concede that there's no point in me continuing to post in here.
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I didn't defend it, it wasn't misleading so much as a projection of what would've been allocated.

Now you might argue that it won't ever be allocated as we are leaving, but that's besides the point. It would've been available and allocated as described in that tweet.

You're both correct for different reasons.
 
roydo said:
Been following this exchange, on and off, today, and fwiw, as a "soft" remainer, perhaps my perspective might shed some light on your frustrations. Which I share to some extent.

Leavers, for a variety of reasons, either dont like the EU full stop, and/or have a specific beef with it. Either way, they must believe we are better off not in it.

Edit. And vice versa, obvs.

Remainers, again, for a variety of reasons, would prefer the status quo, as in they a dead keen on the EU, and/or, they are not sure if the sound bites that seemed to sway the result, are in any way realistic. Thats Me btw. Most, imo, are in the camp that I am in. I didnt believe the tripe served up by either sides, and on balance, reckoned staying was preferable to the utter unknown.

And thats before the shambles the MPs have made of it.

So, in a way you are correct. I cannot fathom, other than a pretty narrow few reasons, why so many folk voted for something they didnt have a clue what It actually will be.
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Nicely put.

As I've stated, it's a very odd situation when you have the left arguing for a Capitalist entity like the EU. It's become a liberal panacea in the eyes of some, in their eyes exhibiting all of their own values - the reality is that it is not fully understand by many on either side if the debate, which is why misinformation on both sides has been allowed to dictate.

My position is arrived at by looking at the financial implications of leaving vs staying and partly as a result of the things that I like about the EU that people want to eradicate - like free movement.

I prefer to think we are stronger inside the single market and stronger as a union.
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
I find it hard to sit in the same remain camp as people that claim to be socialist and left wing and think the EU is amazing.

It's a little bit of better the devil you know. And definitely more preferable to a libertarian model of entirely free trade.
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Your first paragraph I honestly dont care one way or another. Your second one is mainly where I sit. Some would say its a bit feeble, but on balance, the EU aint THAT bad. Its just annoying at times.
 
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