Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Wizard]

Urm in the latest GE both parties manefesto stated they would honour the referendum result ......

Democracy is a fluid thing. Otherwise we’d have one election and that would be the end. People change their minds and should be allowed to express that.

Politicians can change their manifesto. Why can’t we?

 

[Jebus_lives]

Urm in the latest GE both parties manefesto stated they would honour the referendum result ......

Urm...we've been through this already.

That's an odd conclusion to draw from what I have just quoted at you.



One vote, and the outcome of that vote does make a democracy, nor does any vote relating to Brexit. Democracy is the system not the vote itself. You cease to be a democracy if you are unable to adapt or respond to evidence based deliberation and facts.

I know you want YOUR vote honoured, but that is possibly the most simplistic notion of democracy you can ascribe.

And this nonesense about 'well it is in the manifesto' so we cannot renage on it is ludicrous as well. How many policies and manifesto promises have been ditched by this government?

Balancing the books by 2017, dementia Tax, “secure the entitlements of EU nationals in Britain and British nationals in the EU.”, electrifying northern rail line routes, increasing mental health funding in the NHS. All gone despite being manifesto pledges.

Bring back taxing Dementia sufferers because @Joey66 says it's the will of the people!

 

[Joey66]

Democracy is a fluid thing. Otherwise we’d have one election and that would be the end. People change their minds and should be allowed to express that.

Politicians can change their manifesto. Why can’t we?

As we have not left the EU as yet maybe ten years another referendum.....or a PM like Heath just joined without consultation it was only ever for trade........not a political union......

 

[neil999]

As we have not left the EU as yet maybe ten years another referendum.....or a PM like Heath just joined without consultation it was only ever for trade........not a political union......

not ted heath again joey!!

 

[Joey66]

not ted heath again joey!!

lol
Took us in the trading block on his own views ......plonker.....

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Yes one stupid MP opens his mouth using a vile word , and people follow like sheep.......even on here........
The Nazis killed not just Jews inferior people they against gypsies, Down syndrome, autism , and Gypsies .....
How can this be linked to Brexit FGS?

I hear they also have a downer on retired horticulturalists!

 

[Joey66]

I hear they also have a downer on retired horticulturalists!

They had a downer on us when I worked lol
Oh by the way apologies it was Davek who used that word on another thread

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Hah. You got me there

Ok I'll go back to your post.

Yes I'll go with the arrogance and sense of superiority. But those traits do not alone make you a Nazi. As a leave supporter in this thread I come across people with those traits on a daily basis but I don't think of any of them as Nazis. It's when you combine those traits with the sadistic evilness to carry out the atrocities, and then add in the total lack of remorse. That's what makes you a Nazi.

When Rees Mogg et al start showing that side to their character I'll agree with you. Even Robinson, total scumbag that he is, isn't a Nazi although he'd probably take it as a compliment if you called him one. He's undoubtedly a fascist and a racist and a grade 1 arse though.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Call it populism if you wish, but too me it’s just heavily caveatted nazism.

For the record I do not believe this of all those who voted leave only a select few.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

They had a downer on us when I worked lol
Oh by the way apologies it was Davek who used that word on another thread

Top man Joe - luv ya x

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I hear they also have a downer on retired horticulturalists!

Joe has connections, he can get a German passport at the click of a finger.

 

[magicjuan]

Despised is a bit heavy. And we're talking about the politicians here; for individuals it depends on the behaviour. I think annoyed and disinterested is more accurate. Also depends where you ask. Britain is already right-wing by Belgian standards, the Flemish right wing nationalists are more left-wing than your current overlords. If they would say what Cameron has said about wanting to scrap the working hours directive they would be annihilated in the next elections; in Britain that goes down well. A centrist here, is left in Britain. You get collectively annoyed when there is a minor protest, just look in all the threads on here when there is an environmental march or something. God forbid a protest somewhat hinders daily life - then you usually get something along the line well that doesn't work anyway and method A or B is more convincing. That's a passive approach. One of the reasons why I think @magicjuan 's idea of a left Brexit is very unlikely.




Do you go around in England tops singing about bombers? Otherwise I wouldn't say your Englishness makes a difference. Also 500 million people... There are probably some who would like you.

Not being facetious here but what do you understand my idea of a 'left brexit' to be? Or are you thinking of left reasons to leave?
I would be happy to be part of an EEC, without all the chess moves towards other ideals, though I find that unlikely because of how materially inportant the Euro is to 'the dream'.

 

[Wizard]

Not being facetious here but what do you understand my idea of a 'left brexit' to be? Or are you thinking of left reasons to leave?
I would be happy to be part of an EEC, without all the chess moves towards other ideals, though I find that unlikely because of how materially inportant the Euro is to 'the dream'.

The EEC doesn't exist anymore. It's now part of the EU. We also have a strong position in the EU without being part of the Euro. Not sure what you're asking for here?

 

[magicjuan]

The EEC doesn't exist anymore. It's now part of the EU. We also have a strong position in the EU without being part of the Euro. Not sure what you're asking for here?

If you're not sure then it's going to be difficult, think my post is quite clear.
I am aware the EEC morphed into the EU but what the EEC was still exists within the EU.
How strong our position is within the EU is up for debate, hence the entire Brexit fiasco, which makes me curious as to how things would have panned out had it been Germany or France wanting to leave.

 

[longers]

Have you ever met Ken Clarke, Anna Soubry, Hammond, Dominic Grieve, Sadiq Khan........

I’ve met Sadiq as has my mum when he was doing a visit at Royal Marsden hospital. Top bloke and popular amongst all the londoners I know.

Probably not the response you were looking for eh

 

[Jebus_lives]

The EEC doesn't exist anymore. It's now part of the EU. We also have a strong position in the EU without being part of the Euro. Not sure what you're asking for here?

There are many who are/were perfectly happy with the EEC as a body that oversaw economic integration among it's member states. It's role as one which largely governed trade is acceptable to people that don't want to be aligned to a more federalised or a politically unified Europe.

There is, with good reason, a concern that a more centralised Europe, as a capitalist entity, with an ideology of 'European Nationalism' accompanied by the means to enforce that, through a centralised armed forces, bears all the hallmarks of a Facist state.

There is well documented philosophical commentary on the structures and ideology of Totalitarianism, the likes of Gramsci, Lefort, Arendt, Schmitt (offering a range of perspectives) and there are factions/individuals within the EU that want or at least aspire to move in a direction which could be considered or are persceptively, less liberal. Nazism and Facism have courted, particularly in the decades following WWII, the idea of a Nation of Europe and with greater centralised control it's easier to achieve.

Personally, I don't prescribe to that train of thought, as I tend to believe that the EU seeks to limit and reduce Facist elements where they emerge and it largely promotes/favours liberalism through it's legal processes and judgements. But I recognise the concern.